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  #157  
Old 10-02-2012, 05:57 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

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Originally Posted by neiltb View Post
safety features are one area of car design I buy with no intention of using.

If all cars attained 5*, your test is flawed and needs to be reworked, was the 2003 test the same as 2011?


If you don't care about safety features then why are you replying to these posts.


Any modern SUV's are getting 5* in EURONCAP. Compare the GC then with the Mercedes 2012 M Class, same test and supposedly the same car platform but the Mercedes got 5*.


If the failed Moose Test had occurred with the Mercedes we all know the answers from that brand would have been very different. This is again what I am complaining about, careless attitude from JEEP and all of us being trated as sheep.


Keeping your eyes closed will change nothing. The reality is there, just do not avoid it because you do not like it, it is better to admit it and try to get things fixed.


Regarding the Air Suspension, why does Mercedes include Active Dampening on their units? Because without them the car is a bouncy ball with very low control limits.
What a coincidence, AUDI and WW also include ADS... on their air suspensions. Answering a previous post, Yes, the problem is with the Quadra Lift. Standard suspension will do ok in a moose test, and in any case if you are still worried is easy to replace the standard dampers for stiffer ones, so only QL users should care about all this mess (if they really care).
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  #158  
Old 10-02-2012, 06:15 AM
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Speaking from experience, the average driver would crash if they attempted the manoeuvre the way it was executed in that test. Almost every rollover I have attended is from someone panicking, steering too soon and over-correcting, usually in a situation similar to this (but usually a kangaroo, camel or cow). An experienced driver who is able to pull off the manoeuvre in the video would know better. If you're having to swerve back into your own lane that quickly and violently, and there's no time to straighten up and brake before moving back into your lane, then you've probably got a car coming at you, in which case you shouldn't have swerved in the first place, and you're lucky you only blew a tyre.


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  #159  
Old 10-07-2012, 12:32 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

WOW this thread is STILL going!

Im still getting one for the family early next year, i love them.

Talk about polishing.
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  #160  
Old 10-07-2012, 08:52 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

I suspect part of the problem with the 20 inch wheels is that they are not wide enough all the other cars they tested have a 20X9 wheels, and the Kumho Tires that it was wearing have been getting horrible reviews.

So it is possible with a differnent tire could have yeilded a different outcome.

I take issue with the video also looking like it was just looping the same tire failure over and over.
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  #161  
Old 10-07-2012, 09:00 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

So... if you have the air suspension then it will fail the moose test from lack of dampening but if you do not have the air suspension then no worries ?

Some times no dampening is better. Entering a slalom in a Corvair I could grab second without revving, break the rear end loose, and the oscillations would exactly match the pylon spacing. Beautiful to experience if you get it exactly right.
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  #162  
Old 10-07-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
So... if you have the air suspension then it will fail the moose test from lack of dampening but if you do not have the air suspension then no worries ?

Some times no dampening is better. Entering a slalom in a Corvair I could grab second without revving, break the rear end loose, and the oscillations would exactly match the pylon spacing. Beautiful to experience if you get it exactly right.
Someone who raced a corvair has NO say in a vehicle safety discussion

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  #163  
Old 10-07-2012, 11:00 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

If some large animal jumps in front of me I'm taking it out, and getting my WK2 fixed or replaced with insurance. You want safety, you should see how well these WK2s hold up in front end collisions.
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  #164  
Old 10-07-2012, 01:58 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

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Originally Posted by jgc4ever View Post
If some large animal jumps in front of me I'm taking it out, and getting my WK2 fixed or replaced with insurance. You want safety, you should see how well these WK2s hold up in front end collisions.
Sorry, I cannot agree with that. Euroncap crash test didn't go as good as you say. The car structure did well, but the driver's seat rails broke and the dummy impacted the steering wheel through the airbag. This is easy to fix, just change the seat rails for better ones, but find out the answer from Jeep... we will do nothing (have a look yourself at Euroncap page http://www.euroncap.com/results/jeep...011/460.aspx):

how about this, just happened to me on friday. I was on a weekend trip driving on a 2 way mountain road and started taking over a large trailer. I had almost passed it when the car stopped accelerating. I managed to take it over with the additional speed I had already gained. An engine warning amber light (MIL "Malfunction Indicator Light") and a red one in the EVIC called Electronic Throttle Control showed up.

The car was able to maintain the speed, but would hardly accelerate a bit. I stopped and as the manual says, the red light disappeared after restarting the engine. The MIL one has also disappeared today after maybe 4 or 5 running cycles?

I am now really happy with this car, if that taking over maneuver had been a complex one (let's say another truck closing in...) I might have not been able to finish it safely. The dealer is now going to hear me. I can handle unsafe suspensions and braky seat rails (provided i do not crash!) but if this thing does not accelerate when I need it the most, it is just too much.

I hope this will not happen to anyone and I am sorry but no car or brand in my life has ever let me down this way. I will keep you informed on the results with the dealer. (The engine is a CRD, by the way)
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  #165  
Old 10-09-2012, 07:34 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

over taking safely does not mean overtaking when something is coming and you have no margin for any eventuality.

if you did not have the speed to make the pass, I suggest you could have applied the brake and pulled back in behind the truck you were passing. Discretion is the better part of valour.

Your warning light was an issue, but would you have been happier to make the pass and the engine ignored an internal problem that could have caused a mechanical fault or worse a more serious problem.

Maybe you have been very lucky in your car buying, I had a Volvo once that, when at operating temp, would not select reverse reliably, an alfa romeo that wore out prop shaft bushings almost as fast as the dealer could put them in, a mitsubishi that ate alternators for breakfast. Cars, like life, have issues.
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  #166  
Old 10-09-2012, 02:39 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

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Originally Posted by neiltb View Post
over taking safely does not mean overtaking when something is coming and you have no margin for any eventuality.

if you did not have the speed to make the pass, I suggest you could have applied the brake and pulled back in behind the truck you were passing. Discretion is the better part of valour.

Your warning light was an issue, but would you have been happier to make the pass and the engine ignored an internal problem that could have caused a mechanical fault or worse a more serious problem.

Maybe you have been very lucky in your car buying, I had a Volvo once that, when at operating temp, would not select reverse reliably, an alfa romeo that wore out prop shaft bushings almost as fast as the dealer could put them in, a mitsubishi that ate alternators for breakfast. Cars, like life, have issues.

Over taking safely means to me you can overtake. Period.

You suggest to brake... thanks but please read carefully, I had almost passed the truck, that is I was almost at the door of the truck driver and hell I would not brake in that situation in a mountain road unless i had not gained enough speed, which I luckily did, and no one was coming towards me. If another car would have followed me on the overtaking and I brake... There was no valor on that, just had time enough to realize what was happening and finished the overtaking. On the contrary there was a lot of surprise!

From my point of view, I would rather program the system to keep accelerating at least for some time and let me finish overtaking safely instead of cutting completely and instantly the throttle "just in case something bad could happen to the engine". This is most probably a software issue as three days later all the warning lights are gone.

I would like to meet the engineer that did not think about what means to cut the throttle in the middle of such a situation, again even more when it seems there is no issue. It is just too dangerous. Obviously, if the electronic accelerator really fails, or the engine blows, then you are screwed and nothing will help you. See, sometimes this happens and even planes can crash due to mech failures.

Then, of course all cars have issues, they are meant to have them as any mechanical device, but the brand's responsibility is to solve them not to ignore them. Where you happy with the way Volvo, Mitsubishi and Alfa dealt with your issues?

I am not happy with the way Jeep is dealing with safety issues. That is my point.

I once had a Renault for 165k Miles. Man that was a car with failures, I had several problems with it from day 0 (injection, brakes, steering, air conditioning, ABS pump, electrical and many more) but the brand resolved every single one and never ignored them. The car was cheap, very cheap, but I was satisfied with the way things were resolved. Perhaps cheap brands care more about customers as they have to endeavor to maintain their brand image.

Regarding this specific electronic accelerator issue, I have not had a chance to speak with the dealer yet so I can just expose what happened to me and that I consider such a behavior as very unsafe, but have no arguments yet against the customer support.

This does not change the fact that it is amazing to see how Jeep ignores the main safety problems that are out there (Air suspension and EURONCAP's broken seat rails). Can't imagine Renault or Volvo answering to EURONCAP "we have no intention to rework existing seat rails of our sold cars just because your test went wrong..." By the way, does that mean that new cars will have new seat rails? I will check with the dealer, if that proves to be right, believe me mines will be changed for free or he can eat them for breakfast as your Mitsubishi used to do with its alternators.
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  #167  
Old 10-18-2012, 06:12 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

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Originally Posted by Studgun View Post
Speaking from experience, the average driver would crash if they attempted the manoeuvre the way it was executed in that test. Almost every rollover I have attended is from someone panicking, steering too soon and over-correcting, usually in a situation similar to this (but usually a kangaroo, camel or cow). An experienced driver who is able to pull off the manoeuvre in the video would know better. If you're having to swerve back into your own lane that quickly and violently, and there's no time to straighten up and brake before moving back into your lane, then you've probably got a car coming at you, in which case you shouldn't have swerved in the first place, and you're lucky you only blew a tyre.


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So agree with your comment of swerving back onto your driving line why would you do that if you have missed hitting the object, as for the test I didn't observe any braking attempt. I just completed a driver safety course and used my own JGC for it and I am very impressed on how the vehicle performed. I feel very comfortable knowing that if a child runs onto the road in front of me or a truck pulls out or the sky starts to fall my JGC will do well. Did three 100kph emergency stops and if there was a "moose" in front of me I certainly would not have been required to replicate that BS moose test as the car handled perfectly. I now know why I brought a JGC, so to the authors who want to keep defending the moose test go outside and get some fresh air then get in your JGC and take it on a test track and see if you are competent enough to even own one?????
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  #168  
Old 10-18-2012, 11:32 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Just buy a smart car so you can drive underneath the moose instead of trying to avoid it.
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