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  #73  
Old 07-22-2012, 09:05 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

I don't encounter cones when I'm driving so ....
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  #74  
Old 07-22-2012, 12:48 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Why did they use a Volvo XC90 and a Volkswagen Touareg as "reference" vehicles? Neither of those has air suspension like the JGC they tested. Obviously air bags are going to behave differently than standard shocks. I'd like to see this done on the milk truck LR4/Disco.

Also, did the driver even brake before throwing it headlong into the turn? I would assume the average driver would slam on the brakes before swerving.
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  #75  
Old 07-22-2012, 12:49 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Of course, moose are no joking matter. In fact, a moose bit my sister once...
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  #76  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:45 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Well she was carving her initials onnit.
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  #77  
Old 07-22-2012, 10:31 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickgrx View Post
Why did they use a Volvo XC90 and a Volkswagen Touareg as "reference" vehicles? Neither of those has air suspension like the JGC they tested. Obviously air bags are going to behave differently than standard shocks. I'd like to see this done on the milk truck LR4/Disco.

Also, did the driver even brake before throwing it headlong into the turn? I would assume the average driver would slam on the brakes before swerving.
They are comparing 2 other SUV's that had great test results. The type of car or style of car is irrelevant, they are running every type of car through this test. It is not just the Jeep that failed, there are several failures in their list.
They are not saying the Volvo is a better car, only that it passed the test, where the Jeep failed.

The test is very specific, no braking, just turn. This tests the ESP not the ABS. I expect if they had braked, the tyre would have blown out earlier and the steering would be more difficult.
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  #78  
Old 07-23-2012, 10:48 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickgrx View Post
Why did they use a Volvo XC90 and a Volkswagen Touareg as "reference" vehicles? Neither of those has air suspension like the JGC they tested. Obviously air bags are going to behave differently than standard shocks. I'd like to see this done on the milk truck LR4/Disco.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
They are comparing 2 other SUV's that had great test results. The type of car or style of car is irrelevant, they are running every type of car through this test. It is not just the Jeep that failed, there are several failures in their list. They are not saying the Volvo is a better car, only that it passed the test, where the Jeep failed.
If the style of vehicle is irrelevant then why show test results from crossover-style SUVs as reference? If it's irrelevant than just put up a video of a BMW 5-series passing the test...

It would be useful to see results from a Land Rover LR4 or something similar.
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  #79  
Old 07-23-2012, 07:36 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

I would like Milous to comment on how serious he thinks this is and if Jeep are planning to do anything about it.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:15 PM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

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Originally Posted by Mongoose9400 View Post
The Jeep hardly comes close to rolling over. Watching other videos of failures those cars get up high on two wheels or flip. I'll tell you what. Once someone rolls their Jeep then I'll listen.


Sent from my iPhone 4S
That was a pro driver driving that. Let a regular schmuck try that test, guarantee you its rolling over.

And lets put the "almost rolling over" to the side for a minute. Popping the tires isn't good either. You never know how someone can react to that. They might get scared and over correct. All depends on the driver and the situation.


But that being said if I were to buy one, this wouldn't persuade me to not buy it. The looks of it and the launch that isnt there anymore with the SRT are the reasons. lol

Totally agree with Enforcer here. Some people on here are defending it because they own it and have blinds on their eyes.


Just my opinion.
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  #81  
Old 07-24-2012, 12:30 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

For the most part I have to agree with Enforcer on this. Other than the obvious, a few of the things that I'm curious about are:

1. Why does it look like the driver is driving so much more aggressively in the GC than the other two....in both videos regardless of load.
2. They said the ESP didn't work...why?

I work with vehicle dynamics Engineers that drive like this in testing, they were concerned when they saw this. The "Moose Test" is not an official test used in vehicle development world wide (not that it shouldn't be), but there is a similar test that is very common and is used by many companies, including Ford, GM and Chrysler. It's called the "Double Lane Change" and the main difference is where the "Moose" pattern is: straight ahead-sharp left-short straight-sharp right-straight ahead (more of a square wave), the "DLC" is: straight ahead-sharp left-immediate sharp right-back to straight ahead (more of a sine wave).

It is my understanding that the DLC is worse than the Moose because the vehicle never gets a chance to settle (even briefly) after the first hard left because there's no short straight (while you're presumably in the other lane) before the wheel gets jerked the other way. This is what has me most concerned/interested...I have no doubt the WK2 went through DLC testing (and the one video with the robot steering is proof of part of it)....I don't doubt they tested it with full payload as well. Something's amiss here (either with the vehicle or the test), I'm concerned, and look forward to seeing what happens next.

Also, an experienced driver can skew a test (hence the robot, which can also steer WAY faster than a human), so if something is wrong with the ESP, the driver can make the car go nuts pretty easily (see question 1 above). Having said that, I feel the only reason the Jeep didn't flip in the first video was because the driver stopped it (whether he intentionally put it that position or not). Yes I realize it was over loaded. Don't think it should have de-beaded the front tire in the second test either.

Watching.....
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Old 07-24-2012, 03:44 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

The reason the Jeep seems to pass the standard tests is because it is only tested with 1 driver in weight. The Moose test is at maximum weight. That was 4 adults and sandbags in the boot.
Ask your engineer mates if any of the tests involve full GVM.
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  #83  
Old 07-24-2012, 05:59 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyWifesWK2 View Post
1. Why does it look like the driver is driving so much more aggressively in the GC than the other two....in both videos regardless of load.
2. They said the ESP didn't work...why?
1: The GC has a very indirect steering = more steering input than other cars.
2: THe ESP didn't keep the GC firmly on the road = didn't work (at least not as well as it was supposed to).
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  #84  
Old 07-24-2012, 07:49 AM
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Re: Jeep Grand Cherokee Moose Test -- Full Story

I've just now read this thread from the start and am confident that the existence of a problem is very likely.

I own the exact model used in this test. Initial turn in is great; lots of grip, very precise and confident - amazing for such a tall vehicle. Though once the load starts to transfer this composure is not maintained.

I just went and compared a 2007 Volvo XC70 which has terrible turn in feel but is very consistent in its behavio(u)r. It also has significantly less grip than the Overland. It is this very high level of grip that appears to be the Jeeps main enemy in this test... so much grip that it can generate enough force to tear ty(i)res from rims.

Perhaps Jeep is trying to be too much with this GC iteration? They have made a significant change with this model in attempting to make it feel far better on road. How can you combine very high levels of grip with a suspension system also capable of above average off road work? Look at the amount of suspension travel on the loaded side of the vehicle... then watch the super stiff roll bar resist and literally throw the Jeep back to level.

Other posters have wondered how a Land Rover Discovery/LR4 would behave. Given their less ambitious on-road credentials I'd put money on it passing this test... albeit with plenty more understeer and less control, but vastly more idiot-proof.

The marketplace asked Jeep for a single vehicle that felt great to drive on road and could more than hold its own off road. Jeep gave it to us and we bought truck loads of them. Have we put Jeep engineers into a corner and asked for more than Mr Newton would allow them to deliver?

On the other hand, if the swedish testers were serious about stomping on Jeep they would at least test a non QL GC as a 'control' (science term for a baseline/comparison). More importantly, they should have commented on exactly what they believe needs to be modified. If they cannot comment on what should be changed then I don't see how they are qualified to run such a test.
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