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  #25  
Old 08-29-2015, 12:13 AM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
Well you are wrong for several reason!

Remote Start times out after 15 minutes. And that is NOT long enough for carbon monoxide to build up to dangerous levels (yes... its been researched & tested).

And if a person is stupid and/or careless, it shouldn't negatively affect features and functionality for the rest of us! This goes DOUBLE for Parents!



Threads & stupid lawsuits always remind me of THIS GEM:

Actually, you are wrong. Iowa State Study (AEN-207) found that an idling 5 hp. gasoline engine in a 10,000 cubic foot garage for 8 minutes yielded CO levels of 1,200 ppm, which killed the two men working in the garage studied. The study further found that a vehicle running in a closed garage will produce lethal levels of CO in 2 minutes. If you don't believe these results, I suggest you do a test in your garage.

Finally, I wasn't taking the position that features that can be dangerous in the hands of morons should be banned...quite the opposite. I believe in Darwin's law..if one is responsible for harm caused by their own negligence, that is not the fault of the manufacturer of the product. It's called assumption of risk, and contributory or comparative negligence, depending upon which State you are domiciled in.

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  #26  
Old 08-29-2015, 12:31 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

While I think the lawsuit gets it wrong, I do find the ability to drive the car away when the key leaves the vehicle highly alarming and have thought so from the beginning.

You shouldn't be able to take the vehicle out of park if the key fob isn't in the vehicle.

Now, to combat the dead key fob issue or if you get out of the car and accidentally drop it down the sewer or something, there should be ways to override that feature SECURELY.

1 - If you have lost the key fob after starting the vehicle or your spouse has left the vehicle with it, the system should allow you to type in your U-Connect pin on the dash computer. That will allow you to at least get home or wherever an extra fob is.

2 - If you are in the vehicle and the battery dies, the system should assume the key is still in the vehicle if none of the doors have opened. Further, since the system knows which door was opened with the key fob, it could be narrowed down to just that door. In other words, if you open, then close the door the fob entered, and the fob is now out of range, the system should assume the fob has left the vehicle and require the PIN to be entered to shift out of park. If the vehicle loses contact with the fob after it has already been used to enter and start the vehicle (and no doors have been opened), any loss of contact should be assumed to be a dead battery. A battery warning should display in the EVIC. At that point, if the vehicle is turned off, you'll need to do the "press the start button with the end of the fob" trick to restart it. BTW, the door handle should have a similar sensor so you don't have to pull out the physical key to enter.

3) If the vehicle is running, a door is opened and the fob leaves the vehicle, the doors should lock when that door is closed and the fob is not in the vehicle. This is similar to the doors locking when using the remote start. You would then need the fob to re-enter the vehicle. After 15 minutes, the vehicle will shut down just like it would with a remote start. The vehicle would be unable to be shifted out of park until the fob re-enters the vehicle or the PIN code is entered. As a precaution, when the vehicle is left running unattended, the brakes should automatically apply and remain engaged, especially if the fob leaves the vehicle when not in park.

4) If you remote start the vehicle, but find it doesn't detect the fob when you approach, there should be an option to use a phone that has been previously paired to the vehicle as a temporary fob. That would allow you to start and drive the vehicle a limited number of times before the fob will be required again.

5) There should be an option to have the vehicle lock after a short time after the engine has been turned off and the fob leaves the vicinity of the vehicle.

One of the things a keyless system should do is allow the vehicle to be secured even when running. Further, you should never have to use the fob or any other manual control to lock or unlock the vehicle.
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  #27  
Old 08-30-2015, 03:41 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by Dan JGC View Post
Wish there was a better more efficient system for this.......
There is...it's called common sense. Unfortunately, many people are deficient in this area. Either that, or they're just oblivious. Judging by the way many people drive, I'd say it's a pathetic mixture of both.
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  #28  
Old 08-31-2015, 11:19 AM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by Hemispin View Post
There is...it's called common sense. Unfortunately, many people are deficient in this area. Either that, or they're just oblivious. Judging by the way many people drive, I'd say it's a pathetic mixture of both.
Yup. Turns out "common sense" isn't all that common.
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  #29  
Old 08-31-2015, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post

Yup. Turns out "common sense" is all that common.
So maybe systems should be designed with that in mind? (That's just common sense, right?)
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  #30  
Old 08-31-2015, 12:43 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

You can try to make it idiot proof but nature will just build a bigger idiot...
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  #31  
Old 09-01-2015, 11:28 AM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by WATacoRider View Post
They will probably win because america caters to the retards.
Agreed, but I would classify it as "lowest common denominator" of intelligence.
God forbid people actually try to think for themselves in this country (or raise their own damn kids instead of expecting society to do it for them).
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  #32  
Old 09-01-2015, 06:08 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

Don't forget you get a trophy for being incompetent or is that a lawsuit


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  #33  
Old 09-02-2015, 05:53 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemispin View Post
There is...it's called common sense. Unfortunately, many people are deficient in this area. Either that, or they're just oblivious. Judging by the way many people drive, I'd say it's a pathetic mixture of both.
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Originally Posted by Edumakated View Post
You can try to make it idiot proof but nature will just build a bigger idiot...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd3.6 View Post
Agreed, but I would classify it as "lowest common denominator" of intelligence.
God forbid people actually try to think for themselves in this country (or raise their own damn kids instead of expecting society to do it for them).
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Originally Posted by HFD170 View Post
Don't forget you get a trophy for being incompetent or is that a lawsuit


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Normally I would agree with all the sentiments here.

However, this is supposed to be advanced security technology. It shouldn't make a vehicle easier to steal. In fact, the opposite should be true: it should allow your vehicle to be secured, even when left running while you dash into the house for something you left inside.

Instead, the system leaves the doors unlocked when you step away from it and allows anyone to jump in and take off to anywhere as long as they don't shut it off until they can override the system or get it to the nearest chop shop.

I always lock my vehicle and never let it run when I don't have line of sight with it. I'm also aware enough of things not to forget to put it into park before stepping out of the car.

Having said that, as I previously said, I find the ability for someone to get into my vehicle and drive away without the key alarming. That should not be possible with proper 2-factor authentication, something FCA apparently lacks knowledge of based on their record of security.

It's simple: key present? Then drive away. Key not present? You need a second authentication or you aren't going anywhere. That's basic security.

My house has two locks on the front door: a knob lock and a deadbolt. I can leave the knob lock unlocked. However, without the deadbolt, anyone an walk in. That deadbolt acts as a second security measure. Likewise, I can leave that knob lock on all the time so the knob will always be locked, even if I forget to latch the deadbolt. In other words, the pair together don't just work as a team, but they back each other up when one isn't protecting the house.

The fact is, while I've seen plenty of people mock the lawsuit (and with good reason), then talk about the "what-ifs" of losing your keys and being unable to drive the vehicle. Well, what is good for the goose is good for the gander: in other words, don't lose your keys.

Having said that, a proper backup system would allow the owner to drive the vehicle by using a secondary authentication, i.e. their UConnect PIN. It's like a backup password to a fingerprint scan.

While I hate frivolous lawsuits like this one, perhaps this will be the kick in the butt FCA needs to actually secure their vehicles properly.

I like my Jeep a lot, but based on the record of security, lack of proper software updates for expensive features (like the GPS) and their one-stop-response of "that's normal" for things like transmission issues, body panel alignments and paint defects makes me think this may be my first and last Jeep ever.
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  #34  
Old 09-03-2015, 04:17 AM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

Is it the same as some Harleys, you can start it up in the garage with the fob on the bench, ride away into the sunset, but when you stop it it won't restart without the code. They're a b*stard to push home too...LOL...
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  #35  
Old 09-03-2015, 10:15 AM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by beagle View Post
Is it the same as some Harleys, you can start it up in the garage with the fob on the bench, ride away into the sunset, but when you stop it it won't restart without the code. They're a b*stard to push home too...LOL...
The Jeep is a lot harder to push when you come out of the grocery store after taking your spouse to the airport - and he or she had the fob in their pocket.

Even if no one ever steals the Jeep, the idea you could be stranded after dropping a person off who has the fob is pretty dicey. Sure, the EVIC shows a message and bongs at you, but there are so many other beeps and bongs that it's easy to block that stuff out after a while.

That's a huge reason to require entering the PIN code: to remind you that you don't have a FOB with you, so you shouldn't go anywhere without a stop at home to get the spare one.
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  #36  
Old 09-03-2015, 10:18 AM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

Are there any cars that do it that way? Isn't the current approach (chime and dash light when key walks off, but car remains operational) more or less standard in the industry?
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