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  #37  
Old 09-03-2015, 10:44 AM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
However, this is supposed to be advanced security technology. It shouldn't make a vehicle easier to steal. In fact, the opposite should be true: it should allow your vehicle to be secured, even when left running while you dash into the house for something you left inside.

Instead, the system leaves the doors unlocked when you step away from it and allows anyone to jump in and take off to anywhere as long as they don't shut it off until they can override the system or get it to the nearest chop shop.

I always lock my vehicle and never let it run when I don't have line of sight with it. I'm also aware enough of things not to forget to put it into park before stepping out of the car.
Here is a solution. LOCK THE JEEP when you get out to run in the house for something. You cannot complain about someone stealing your car when you deliberately left the doors open and the car running.

You 100% can lock the doors from the outside with the Jeep running and the keyfob in your pocket. When I have my dog in the car and I need to run into a store or something real quick, I leave the Jeep running with the A/C on and lock it. Nobody has stolen it yet.

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Originally Posted by BubbaATL View Post
Are there any cars that do it that way? Isn't the current approach (chime and dash light when key walks off, but car remains operational) more or less standard in the industry?
Yes, this is normal and has been for a long time, my 2007 BMW with comfort access package did the same thing over a decade ago. This is what happens when you put advanced tech into cars that stupid people can afford. Same thing with the 8-speed electronic shifter. It's been in high end Audis for years, but now that it's in a Jeep, people don't know how to put them thing in park and they sue the manufacturer because their car ran them over when they got out.

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  #38  
Old 09-03-2015, 11:03 AM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
Here is a solution. LOCK THE JEEP when you get out to run in the house for something. You cannot complain about someone stealing your car when you deliberately left the doors open and the car running.

You 100% can lock the doors from the outside with the Jeep running and the keyfob in your pocket. When I have my dog in the car and I need to run into a store or something real quick, I leave the Jeep running with the A/C on and lock it. Nobody has stolen it yet.
Sure, you can manually lock the doors, but any thief who has taken "Car Theft 101" can pop the lock in 5 seconds flat. Then he can drive away.

Unlike with a regular key, the Fob being out of the vehicle should prevent that. When everything is electronic and computer controlled, everything can have multiple levels of protection. Keyless means being able to lock the doors with the engine running. Requiring a PIN to put the car in gear when the fob is out of the vehicle helps prevent theft when the door locks are defeated.

When dealing with computers, you never have only one line of defense.

Call people stupid if you want, but a keyless system that can detect the proximity of the fob should offer greater security than a key. It's an easy fix they could implement into U-Connect with no changes to the hardware.

That's why it should exist.

If nothing else, that PIN number would help override some of the protection errors that cause current issues people have cited here, such as low fob battery warnings and the inability to put the Jeep into or out of gear.
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  #39  
Old 09-03-2015, 02:54 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by Tarponbeach View Post
Actually, you are wrong. Iowa State Study (AEN-207) found that an idling 5 hp. gasoline engine in a 10,000 cubic foot garage for 8 minutes yielded CO levels of 1,200 ppm, which killed the two men working in the garage studied. The study further found that a vehicle running in a closed garage will produce lethal levels of CO in 2 minutes. If you don't believe these results, I suggest you do a test in your garage.

....

I find this "study" to be somewhat not related to buying a modern vehicle. it CAN happen but the website i found describing it is much more stating it as a fact than a possibility
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning: Garages (AEN-207)

while they're upfront with
"Changes in engine design, fuel, and emission control devices have dramatically reduced the emissions of carbon monoxide."
they then get a bit heavy handed in the rest of the page.

first comparing a 5HP engine to the emissions of a modern computer controlled vehicle is not an apples to apples comparison.

Second they themselves said "Operation of their poorly tuned truck in a closed car wash ..."

I happen to use industrial toxic gas detection equipment at work on a regular basis. It's entirely possible for me to test the exhaust of a modern vehicle (gasoline, diesel, propane powered and get a big fat goose egg on a CO ppm meter. It's also very possible to get the hundreds or thousands of PPM if the engine is not properly tuned. (and a small engine like on a generator usually is a mess...)

But while CO itself is colorless/odorless/tasteless all the other crap emitted at the same time when you are tuned that poorly generally is not. usually people tell call me because they see smoke, have burning eyes, smell something bad, or have respiratory irritation.

To be honest I wouldn't start my car in the garage and let it run for 15 minutes, but the implication of the website that 2 minutes in the garage is crazy dangerous just doesn't seem right to me with a modern computer controlled engine. If 2 minutes is going to kill you then they need to suggest you put the car in neutral and push it out of the garage before starting it. I'd assume the car makers have some data on real world distribution of horrible emisiones. Maybe even garage door manufacturers and home builders have such knowledge so they too can avoid liability?

anyway- all that aside- interesting point you make about remote start inside a garage. I know the system will balk if low on gas, does it balk too if the computer has thrown a code or otherwise is not running 'right' (like in initial learning period after a battery pull)? Maybe that too should be a check to in order to make a reasonable attempt to keep things better under control.
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  #40  
Old 09-03-2015, 09:09 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
I know the system will balk if low on gas, does it balk too if the computer has thrown a code or otherwise is not running 'right' (like in initial learning period after a battery pull)? Maybe that too should be a check to in order to make a reasonable attempt to keep things better under control.
I believe someone here reported that is the case. The system won't start the vehicle if there is an error code displayed.
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  #41  
Old 09-08-2015, 02:24 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
Sure, you can manually lock the doors, but any thief who has taken "Car Theft 101" can pop the lock in 5 seconds flat. Then he can drive away.
Lock the doors manually? No, I can get out of my Jeep with the engine running, close the door, and lock the vehicle either by the key fob or by pressing the lock button on the door handle.

If someone is waiting in the bushes near my running, locked vehicle and wants/tries to steal it, then I guess that's why I have insurance. And hopefully my dog that has been patiently waiting in the back will take a big bite out of their neck.
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  #42  
Old 09-08-2015, 03:06 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
Lock the doors manually? No, I can get out of my Jeep with the engine running, close the door, and lock the vehicle either by the key fob or by pressing the lock button on the door handle.
That's what I meant by manually - as in it doesn't lock itself.

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Originally Posted by dcorn View Post
If someone is waiting in the bushes near my running, locked vehicle and wants/tries to steal it, then I guess that's why I have insurance. And hopefully my dog that has been patiently waiting in the back will take a big bite out of their neck.
Wouldn't it be better if they couldn't put the thing in gear to drive away at all?

It's just some extra lines of code which would greatly increase the security of the vehicle. Why not add them?

Why potentially risk a rate increase on your insurance (along with paying a deductible) and the life of your dog when the guy decides to shoot him as he takes off and finds him in the seat behind him?

Besides, theft isn't the only reason you wouldn't want someone to just be able to drive away without the fob in the vehicle.

There are any number of reasons you or a family member might potentially become stranded when you find yourself somewhere without the fob. Maybe your spouse has it and you just dropped him or her off at work or the airport. Maybe you were loading something into the Jeep and set the Fob down. Either way, the fob is at home and you're stranded. Now, if only you were required to enter a PIN number to put it in gear, then maybe you'd think "what the heck...my keys are...oh, wait...they're in the kitchen...where I was grabbing the beer to take to the Superbowl party..."

Why have a situation where it's possible to screw yourself? Can you honestly say you've never had a moment where you forgot something important and only remembered it when you got somewhere?
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  #43  
Old 09-08-2015, 03:43 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by jacko15 View Post
Class action=rich lawyers.
Exactly. The lawyers handling this action will get $20 million in the eventual settlement while each owner of a Jeep with keyless ignition will receive a coupon worth $50 off their next purchase of a new Jeep.
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  #44  
Old 09-08-2015, 08:13 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
That's what I meant by manually - as in it doesn't lock itself.


Wouldn't it be better if they couldn't put the thing in gear to drive away at all?

It's just some extra lines of code which would greatly increase the security of the vehicle. Why not add them?

Why potentially risk a rate increase on your insurance (along with paying a deductible) and the life of your dog when the guy decides to shoot him as he takes off and finds him in the seat behind him?

Besides, theft isn't the only reason you wouldn't want someone to just be able to drive away without the fob in the vehicle.

There are any number of reasons you or a family member might potentially become stranded when you find yourself somewhere without the fob. Maybe your spouse has it and you just dropped him or her off at work or the airport. Maybe you were loading something into the Jeep and set the Fob down. Either way, the fob is at home and you're stranded. Now, if only you were required to enter a PIN number to put it in gear, then maybe you'd think "what the heck...my keys are...oh, wait...they're in the kitchen...where I was grabbing the beer to take to the Superbowl party..."

Why have a situation where it's possible to screw yourself? Can you honestly say you've never had a moment where you forgot something important and only remembered it when you got somewhere?
i TOTALLY follow you from a theft perspective and i wish they would implement that for that much more security. Once you have that mindset, there's probably a bajillion things they could do with software, the uconnect system, the app, and gps- you could send permission from your phone for someone to drive the vehicle home for example. You could "turn on" "valet mode" where you could limit speed and location when you park. Tons of fun.

But my kids tell me when i get out of the car with the fob in my pocket there's a horrible chime that annoys them to no end. Assuming that's true than I'm not so sure that entering a pin is a huge difference over the chime when my wife runs out with the fob in her bag at the airport. My kids make it sound like the chime "never ends"?
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  #45  
Old 09-08-2015, 08:50 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

I think Ford had a better idea. If you leave the car running, get out with the fob and close the door, the horn blows twice. With the Jeep I could walk away and never hear the beep inside the car.


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  #46  
Old 09-10-2015, 12:58 AM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

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Originally Posted by michaelk View Post
But my kids tell me when i get out of the car with the fob in my pocket there's a horrible chime that annoys them to no end. Assuming that's true than I'm not so sure that entering a pin is a huge difference over the chime when my wife runs out with the fob in her bag at the airport. My kids make it sound like the chime "never ends"?
Not that I remember.

I think it only chimes once when you get back in and maybe does it again when you shift out of park. I don't remember it doing it continuously when I drove it from my garage in back to the street up front. The message stays in the EVIC, though, unless it needs to tell you something else.

Like I've previously said, the Jeep bings and bongs for so many little things, including the seatbelt being unbuckled, something being near the back bumper when in reverse, etc, etc, etc....I can see where you might essentially become deaf to a lot of it.

After a while, too many warnings are just white noise, like alarm systems have become.
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  #47  
Old 09-10-2015, 01:46 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

Hell, the transmission is electronic, so just lock it in park until the fob returns to the car. Putting in a PIN is dumb.

And yes, the beeping when you remove the fob from a running Jeep is insanely annoying.
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  #48  
Old 09-10-2015, 02:52 PM
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Re: Keyless Ignition Lawsuit - FCA among the sued manufacturers

Why does it even let you put the vehicle in gear if the key fob is no longer detected? On GM cars, if your key fob leaves while you are parked with the engine running, you can't move it out of park.
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