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  #25  
Old 11-26-2010, 03:37 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

^^^

Yes
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  #26  
Old 11-26-2010, 04:52 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

Most 4wd systems are only 2wd when going in one direction. In forward the left front and rear right do the driving. In reverse it the right front and left rear. That's why a ELSD, Posi or Trac Lok in the rear is an advantage. At least you will have true
three wheel drive.
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  #27  
Old 11-26-2010, 05:04 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

check this thread from last winter from a member with a QD2 WK and a QT1 Commander.....you can see the advantage of the QD2 and the capability of the QT1 in snow.

http://jeepgarage.org/showthread.php?t=6039
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  #28  
Old 11-26-2010, 05:10 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

My previous vehicle was a Patriot with FDI. That's not the off road rated one (no 2 speed transfer case).

I had driven it in pretty much every single bad winter storm the STL area saw from fall 2008 through spring 2010. It never did anything but laugh, even going up a fairly steep incline when others were spinning wheels (on front drive vehicles) or swinging their rears from side to side (on rear drive vehicles). I could come to a complete stop and then get going again with zero slippage.

And that was with all season tires.

It isn't the power delivery system that will save your bacon in the winter, it's the quality of traction your tires can scrounge. AWD/4WD will be a help when you're climbing hills, but that's it.

If someone is concerned about winter traction, having all wheels driven can be a good box to check when buying a car, but the real answer is competent winter tires.
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Old 11-26-2010, 05:59 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

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Originally Posted by Technosavant View Post

It isn't the power delivery system that will save your bacon in the winter, it's the quality of traction your tires can scrounge. AWD/4WD will be a help when you're climbing hills, but that's it.

If someone is concerned about winter traction, having all wheels driven can be a good box to check when buying a car, but the real answer is competent winter tires.
Thank you, thank you. Too many on this forum think that 4WD is a panacea for snowy/icy conditions when it's really much more about the tires.

The most important thing in winter is being able to reliably stop your vehicle, and 4WD does nothing to help you stop--and in fact arguably hurts you by adding extra weight to your vehicle which increases stop times. Even with a 4WD Jeep, winter tires are extremely helpful in winter if you live in an area that sees a lot of snow and ice.
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Old 11-26-2010, 06:13 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

I agree with the tire comment. My mom had a dodge nitro that had the 20 inch wheels with crappy goodyears on them that was fine for dry roads but did nothing in the snow. When I was trying to drive her car up my steep driveway in about 8-10 inches of snow, I got stuck so many times that I just gave up and took my mkz out. My mkz which still had the oem all season tiresbut at a bit better tirebthan the nitro was able to get out of the driveway without getting stuck once. That is why I am a strong believer in good tires for the snow.
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  #31  
Old 11-26-2010, 06:30 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

You need both the capable 4 Hi & Lo system along with the correct tires.
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  #32  
Old 11-26-2010, 10:01 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

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Originally Posted by jeep2011 View Post
Just tell her to look at the rear tailgate, lol. Jeep still considers it 4x4 and not AWD otherwise they would put that on the tailgate.
I actually did tell her that, but she still insists that it's not 4wd. LOL. I guess we'll have to wait for the first good snow storm before she'll be a believer!
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:03 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

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Originally Posted by Technosavant View Post
Even on QDII there's no way to select 2WD/4WD. The difference between AWD and 4WD has been getting hazy over the last few years; the off road enthusiasts have enjoyed making hay over the distinction in the past, but nowadays it just isn't that clear cut.

Since the best split for snow tends to be a 50/50, I'd expect QTI to be just fine. If she runs out of traction with that, QTII wouldn't save her; it would be time for winter tires anyway.
Yeah, I realize that....but other 4wd vehicles still have the ability to select between 2HI, 4HI, 4LO, etc...and have diff locks and other gizmos that are normally associated with 4wd. Because she has no buttons to push, levers to pull, or knobs to twist, she's convinced that she has AWD.

I agree with you that the lines have blurred, but I just wish she would ease her mind and understand that even a true AWD system will be a huge improve over what she had before the new Jeep.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:14 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

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Originally Posted by thex2 View Post
I'm not sure if this is true or not, but I've always had the understanding that AWD will direct power to all four wheels and 4WD will direct power to the front and rear differential. 4WD without lockers, limited slip, etc, is essentially 2WD; 1 rear wheel with power and one front wheel with power.

AWD:
4WD:

While I realize there are systems in place that help the AWD send torque to all four wheels, I question whether an AWD system can have the ability to only send power to two wheels at a time while the system is fully engaged like a 4WD system can do.

I couldn't really figure out the answer on google, so if anybody wants to chip in and clarify this for me, that'd be very helpful. Thanks
Not all AWD systems are created equal. Some of them are clearly better than others. Search YouTube and you'll find some very interesting comparison videos featuring vehicles like Subarus and small crossover SUVs like the CR-V and the Rav4.

As far as 4wd vehicles, it's rare to find them with nothing but open front and rear diffs. Most of them have some way to regulate power from side to side to transfer at least some power to the side with more traction. Take my 4Runner for example. It has a center differential lock, which means 50% torque will go to the front axle and 50% to the rear axle. Then it has a system called ATRAC (basically a traction based system that uses wheel speed sensors) to transfer power side to side on each axle. So my 4Runner can be a true 4wd vehicle, powering all 4 wheels equally if the conditions and available traction require it.

I'm not sure if any modern 4wd vehicles have just open diffs and no way to transfer power side to side. My father used to have a Chevy Blazer like that and it wasn't very good in snow. Like others have said, it's was basically 2wd, one front wheel and one rear wheel with power. The big problem with open diffs is that they always send torque to the wheel with LESS traction. It's inherent in the design of an open diff.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:17 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

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Originally Posted by Bucky View Post

...The most important thing in winter is being able to reliably stop your vehicle, and 4WD does nothing to help you stop...
I think most people understand that. 2wd vehicles or 4wd vehicles, they all have 4 wheel braking, so there's no stopping advantage in a 4wd vehicle. The problem occurs because the traction is much better in a 4wd vehicle, so it gives inexperienced drivers a false sense of security. In their minds, if the vehicle accelerates so effortless in low traction conditions, they somehow feel that the vehicle must also have the same ability stopping in the same conditions.
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Old 11-26-2010, 11:28 PM
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Re: My Aunt just got a WK2 and she's not happy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
Not all AWD systems are created equal. Some of them are clearly better than others. Search YouTube and you'll find some very interesting comparison videos featuring vehicles like Subarus and small crossover SUVs like the CR-V and the Rav4.

As far as 4wd vehicles, it's rare to find them with nothing but open front and rear diffs. Most of them have some way to regulate power from side to side to transfer at least some power to the side with more traction. Take my 4Runner for example. It has a center differential lock, which means 50% torque will go to the front axle and 50% to the rear axle. Then it has a system called ATRAC (basically a traction based system that uses wheel speed sensors) to transfer power side to side on each axle. So my 4Runner can be a true 4wd vehicle, powering all 4 wheels equally if the conditions and available traction require it.

I'm not sure if any modern 4wd vehicles have just open diffs and no way to transfer power side to side. My father used to have a Chevy Blazer like that and it wasn't very good in snow. Like others have said, it's was basically 2wd, one front wheel and one rear wheel with power. The big problem with open diffs is that they always send torque to the wheel with LESS traction. It's inherent in the design of an open diff.

True, but it's also important to note that the ATRAC type systems use braking to reduce power to the slipping wheel. (In many applications, the diffs are still completely open.) On snow and ice it's pretty effective where too much power will quickly overcome available traction. In offroad situations reducing available power isn't the best solution and these systems are not as effective as limited slips which in turn aren't as effective as true lockers.

I think in vehicles with capable "4x4" systems; which both the Grand Cherokee and 4Runner have, the limiting factors usually are ground clearance and tires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
I think most people understand that. 2wd vehicles or 4wd vehicles, they all have 4 wheel braking, so there's no stopping advantage in a 4wd vehicle. The problem occurs because the traction is much better in a 4wd vehicle, so it gives inexperienced drivers a false sense of security. In their minds, if the vehicle accelerates so effortless in low traction conditions, they somehow feel that the vehicle must also have the same ability stopping in the same conditions.

Yeah, it seems most of the wrecks in the winter involve 4x4s. There are inherently worse at braking and turning due to their increased weight. Many drivers just don't get it.
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