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  #13  
Old 08-10-2011, 09:29 PM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

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Originally Posted by Medichic View Post
Hey Smooth,
I see a pattern of you constantly comparing our GC to Audi, MB and BMW. That's like comparing apples to oranges. Jeep has come a long way especially with this redesign but it shouldn't be compared to high end luxury makes. I love my Overland as do many others on this Forum. I have always owned Nissans and still love them. If you told me just a year that I would own a Jeep product I would have told you that you're crazy! Now look at me! Proud GC owner! It just sounds like from your previous posts that you're nit picking. Remember it's a Jeep not Audi, MB, or BMW.
Well Jeep thinks it is getting very close. Thats why I canceled my SRT order I disagree with them.
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Old 08-11-2011, 06:56 AM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

Well, Jeep themselves call the GC a luxury suv, and it's made on a Mercedes Benz chassis. The Overland has fold away electric tilt steering, touch start and locks, auto ac, pano sunroof, remote start, memory seating, heated front and rear seats, air vented front seats, adjustable air suspension system, voice command, HID lights, and more and more and more, and you don't think this is a luxury suv? Can I ask you what "non luxury" suv's offer all this?

I just think that Chrysler/Jeep have been making such poor rated quality vehicles for so long now that everyone forgot this is a luxury suv.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:05 AM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

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Originally Posted by Smooth1 View Post
Well, Jeep themselves call the GC a luxury suv, and it's made on a Mercedes Benz chassis. The Overland has fold away electric tilt steering, touch start and locks, auto ac, pano sunroof, remote start, memory seating, heated front and rear seats, air vented front seats, adjustable air suspension system, voice command, HID lights, and more and more and more, and you don't think this is a luxury suv? Can I ask you what "non luxury" suv's offer all this?

I just think that Chrysler/Jeep have been making such poor rated quality vehicles for so long now that everyone forgot this is a luxury suv.
I just think 60+ for a Jeep (SRT) is out of wack IMHO. Besides the vehicle itself, I think the dealer is part of the experience. I would not put any Jeep dealership in my area on par with a BMW, Audi or Merc.
That and it goes well beyond features in a car for me as well. If I was looking for just features to determine if it was a Lux SUV I would get a Kia Sorento.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:58 AM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

Jeez Buckeye, we all know how you feel about the SRT, build a bridge and get over it.
Smooth, I agree that these are luxury SUV's but they are on a lower level to the Euro's, as they cost considerably less. You need to look at the competition being your Ford, Nissan, GMH, etc. Look at what they offer, not what BMW, Audi & Merc are doing as the top of the line Jeep = the poverty pack Euro in price, bt walks all over it in terms of features.
While it is nice to compare what is missing form the Jeep in relation to your previous brands of ownership, just think about how much you will save on service and parts.
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  #17  
Old 08-11-2011, 08:02 AM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

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Originally Posted by ENFORCER View Post
Jeez Buckeye, we all know how you feel about the SRT, build a bridge and get over it.
I would think ordering a Summit would be an ample bridge wouldn't you? Ease up there lightning.
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Old 08-11-2011, 10:16 AM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

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Originally Posted by Smooth1 View Post
Well, Jeep themselves call the GC a luxury suv, and it's made on a Mercedes Benz chassis. -----
I just think that Chrysler/Jeep have been making such poor rated quality vehicles for so long now that everyone forgot this is a luxury suv.
Just for the record, the chassis is more a Jeep/Chrysler creation than Mercedes. Regarding quality: IMHO the WK2 chassis in Ltd/Overland/Summit trim is in line with what I've owned from Mercedes and Audi and better than my experiences with BMW. The fit and finish for 2011/2012 is world class and if the big round "Jeep" horn pad was replaced with something less conspicuous one could easily fool a passenger into thinking it was a $90k vehicle, not that price means anything in and of itself. I agree about the past quality issues Chrysler/Jeep has had, but they have turned a corner...unlike GM.
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:29 PM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

@BuckeyeSRT

You know, like $6-8K of that is the brakes package alone right?

@Enforcer:
I do understand your point of view, but I live by one standard. IMO, Jeep just made the largest step forward of the Detroit 3 with this model. It's a night and day difference. And I truly hope someone at Chrysler are reading these threads and taking notes. They aren't there yet, but at least they have reached a threshold in which I can come on board now and support the effort while not being ripped off along the way in the hopes of a better future. This is business. You have to put something in front of me that I want first.
Nobody buys a vehicle based on need anymore. Even though we all "need" a car these days, we fulfill that need with what we want. The sooner these auto makers get that, the sooner they start selling alot more cars!

@Bmwister
Just for the record, the chassis the Jeep sits on is the exact same one the 2012 Mercedes Benz ML will sit on, which evolved from the 2006-2011 chassis that was further developed from the 1999-2005 ML series. Considering the Grand Cherokee in 2010 was a live axle, box frame design, which was the direction of this SUV since way back in the 80's, I don't see or understand how you can say that this is a Jeep design and not a Mercedes Benz design. Truthfully, the 2011 GC is more of what MB thought the GC should be, and Jeep has hugely benefited from it. I don't view this as a bad thing at all. And I hope Jeep will pick up the platform and learn from thier past mistakes and evolve the vehicle in a direction more in tune with our times.
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:50 PM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

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Originally Posted by Smooth1 View Post
@BuckeyeSRT

You know, like $6-8K of that is the brakes package alone right?

@Enforcer:
I do understand your point of view, but I live by one standard. IMO, Jeep just made the largest step forward of the Detroit 3 with this model. It's a night and day difference. And I truly hope someone at Chrysler are reading these threads and taking notes. They aren't there yet, but at least they have reached a threshold in which I can come on board now and support the effort while not being ripped off along the way in the hopes of a better future. This is business. You have to put something in front of me that I want first.
Nobody buys a vehicle based on need anymore. Even though we all "need" a car these days, we fulfill that need with what we want. The sooner these auto makers get that, the sooner they start selling alot more cars!

@Bmwister
Just for the record, the chassis the Jeep sits on is the exact same one the 2012 Mercedes Benz ML will sit on, which evolved from the 2006-2011 chassis that was further developed from the 1999-2005 ML series. Considering the Grand Cherokee in 2010 was a live axle, box frame design, which was the direction of this SUV since way back in the 80's, I don't see or understand how you can say that this is a Jeep design and not a Mercedes Benz design. Truthfully, the 2011 GC is more of what MB thought the GC should be, and Jeep has hugely benefited from it. I don't view this as a bad thing at all. And I hope Jeep will pick up the platform and learn from thier past mistakes and evolve the vehicle in a direction more in tune with our times.
You are mistaken on the 2010 Grand Cherokee, it has been a Unibody design since it came out in the early 90's, it did have a live axle in the back but ind. suspension up front on the WK1 and straight axles front and rear on the previous generations. As for the new platform it is an all new design that was co-developed with Mercedes for the Jeep and ML.
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Old 08-11-2011, 03:20 PM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

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Originally Posted by Smooth1 View Post
@Bmwister
Just for the record, the chassis the Jeep sits on is the exact same one the 2012 Mercedes Benz ML will sit on, which evolved from the 2006-2011 chassis that was further developed from the 1999-2005 ML series. Considering the Grand Cherokee in 2010 was a live axle, box frame design...
A fellow JeepGarager beat me to your error there. I used to work in the automobile business, both in the corporate offices and in various design and engineering areas. Having developed many contacts among the old "Big Three" among others to this day, I can assure you that Mercedes borrowed more from Chrysler than the other way around. I'm a long time Mercedes customer too, so if anything I'm biased toward Mercedes but the facts are the facts and credit is due to Chrysler and the Jeep team for a job well done. It is no secret that the future design of the Grand Cherokee (always a unit-body chassis, BTW) had it evolve for IFS and then to also go IRS for more than a decade before the WK2 due to its luxury oriented product positioning. It had started as solid axle on both ends, then went IFS, solid rear, and now is fully independent.

edit: "IFS/IRS" = independent front/rear suspension
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Old 08-11-2011, 03:21 PM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

I don't think there's much argument that a $50,000 Overland Summit or a $60,000 SRT aren't "luxury vehicles".

It seems like all these vehicles anymore are becoming so high priced loaded up it really makes you think about taking that next step. We've been shopping around, take the new Explorer. A loaded Explorer Limited is like $55k....for an Explorer?!? I mean, yeah its nice...but you're well into a BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, etc vehicle for that money...and not just an entry level one either. They don't want to negotiate on those Explorers either.

When you really look at it, the Jeep is a pretty good value...in order to get the equipment we want we'd have to get a Limited model Explorer at a price of $48k, whereas we have that equipment in a $38k Laredo X. Sure the Explorer is bigger, but really the only benefit of that is the third row, and the Jeep is much better from an SUV standpoint, etc...
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  #23  
Old 08-13-2011, 09:34 AM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

I now have three thousand miles on the vehicle. I've owned it for almost two months. It's been a raining for two weeks as well, with an average daily temp of 96 degrees and very high humidities.

The ac does a fair job of cooling the cabin. I have a black interior, and with the leather dash, if it's going to be parked all day, I use a cover. But even when I leave it for 3 or 4 hours in the sun, it's not any worse than any other car or truck on the road. Infinity is going to offer a new ac system that monitors humidity as well, so the ac air is more like a "fresh breeze". Lexus auto temp and ac modes also adjust recycle and fresh air based on air quality. After owning a few Lexus's, I can tell you that sounds better than is possibly executed. The problem here is that "smelly" isn't an air toxin that can be monitored, so the car says the air is fine even if your driving right behind a sewer truck. So what's the point of "auto" if I have to keep changing it manually? The Mercedes Benz does the same thing, but their air filter is a lot better. They cost $150.00 bucks, but you don't have to replace them very often. The Jeep just stays in what you select. Overall, I think this is the best approach for now, at least I don't have to keep switching it.
My driving impressions:
I have the 3.6 liter V6 with the 5 speed auto. At start up, the engine is so smooth, you almost can't tell it's on. It revs nicely also. And it's not a runaway rev either. The engine is pretty tight. And it needs to be. With the 5 speed transmission, the gear ratios are too high. I understand why they did that. The transmission just isn't a good match for the toque curve and rev range of the engine. I guess Mercedes and Jeep went their separate ways before Mercedes could show them how to make a new transmission, so they had to use one off the shelf in order to get one in time for the 2011 release. ( I'm sort of kidding here.) I have to say it's disappointing that even with the power the 5.7 Hemi offers, the overall result is much less than what it could be because of such an obvious weak link in the drive train. . But...... even with all this, the 5 speed does shift very smoothly. I would say it's not until you push the truck past 80% capacity that it all falls apart. I drive the shift points at 3800 (ish) rpms most of the time. If I get on it some more, and push the truck to 4800 rpm shift points, that's a"semi aggressive" range. At these shift points, your pretty much dusting most everyone at the stop lights already. And the engine and transmission hold up fairly well to this point. It's above 4800 rpm that shows the Grand Cherokees archilles heel. And after I drove the 5.7 liter Hemi, I realized even that is just a band aid for this problem. 55 mph roll ons feel pretty weak. And passing can only be done with a downshift. And sometimes it downshifts one gear too many and lunges forward. But 90% of the time I do my driving up to the "semi aggressive" line and I can almost forget about the deficiencies past there. I have other cars and motorcycles to go fast when I want to. So, it is what it is, until and IF Jeep addresses this issue, and not just change it, but fix it correctly. I know about the 8 speed tranny coming. 2 more years? We'll see then I guess. So, my thinking was if I'm not going to be happy with the Hemi V8, then I should not be happy with the V6 and be able to drive it with out a second thought to gas mileage. So in traffic I can step on it and move to the front when I want, set the cruise control at 90 to Miami, hit the remote start button 99% of the time, put in the cheap gas, and still get 18 mpgs without worry. I find the happiness I get there makes up for the lack of thrill I get from the current drive train options. If the rest of the truck is as great as it's supposed to be, then my 2013 or 14 Grand Cherokee is going to be a beast!!!! LOL!! I can live with this until then.

I think the truck turns as well as the laws of physics will allow. It's a heavy truck. I think about 600-1000 lbs too much, but again, it is what it is. Some of that smooth ride we like comes because of that extra weight. Something good to consider I guess. Turn in is controlled, and a bit slow, but it should be on a truck like this.( I also think the Good Year Fortera tires on this truck aren't a good match which further hinders the trucks steering.) The Mercedes Benz ML feels much more planted, yet has a soft ride. It does also have a pitch and sway to it, but that was on the regular suspension. The air suspension system was much nicer. I would say these are pretty close in ride comfort, with the MB being a bit more "plush" feeling. Lexus SUV's are in my book, full floaters. Because that's what you think your doing. It's too soft and too plush. The Infinity Q is an athlete in comparison to all these. The ride in that thing is amazing. It prompts you to step on the gas pedal going into corners and try to pull a drift line. I just can't get next to the "Moon Buggy" look, and it's on road prowess is at the expense of any off road ability. So, I think the Jeep GC is a good combination and a smart choice of sacrifices here. There's some brake dive, but not bad, so never forget your driving an SUV, but it never feels like your waddling along in a tank either. The V6 is almost electric smooth all the way to 85 mph. I think I've even done it without feeling a single shift along the way. LOL!!!
The suspension itself is great. Again I have the air suspension and 4WD Quadra Track II drivetrain. It soaks up expansion joints and urban terrain with ease. Yet it feels solid under you, and not sprung like Honda's tend to feel. I like how Toyota 4 Runners and the new Highlander feel also, but the Jeep adds a much more sofistication to the feel of the road. Now that the live axle is gone, and the much stiffer unibody MB chassis makes the suspension do it's job, single side pot holes don't have that side twisting chatter issue any where near as much. And the Jeep just rumbles right over some of the harshest rail road crossings I know of. Which is where the off road heritage comes into play.

I'll be traveling to and through the mountians later this year. We have a cabin and I like to camp/canoe/bike (and take my nitro RC buggies!!) into the woods and away from everyone. While all my off road driving is destination bound, I'm sure I'm going to get a good close look at this Jeep. And I'll keep this up dated along the way.

On Lexus, BMW, and the Mercedes, if you accidentally press the unlock button on your key fob and it unlocks your doors, if you don't open a door within about 5 minutes, the vehicle relocks itself. Apparently the GC doesn't do that. It just stays unlocked. Be aware.

If your too low on fuel, the remote start is disabled. Nice to know.

I think the Park setting on the air suspension system should also be an "auto" setting if you want. So it does it when you turn off the truck automatically.

I love the fact that the remote control buttons for our front gate and the garage are on the overhead instead of on the rear view mirror. MB, Lexus, BMW, and Ford all have them on the rearview mirror. Dang mirror always moving around never where you want it because you keep bumping it when you hit the buttons. Annoying design!

The bluetooth works well with my Sprint HTC phone.
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Old 08-13-2011, 10:17 AM
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Re: My WK2 My chronicles of ownership

Hi Bmwister,

Just curious here... you didn't mention Laredo. I think all chassis are the same, right? I own a 70th and I think its basically a Laredo with a good (IMO) package over it.


I have never rode a MB SUV nor a BM nor other luxury SUVs, so I can't compare. I appreciate reading the thread anyway. Just another opinion.


Quote:
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Just for the record, the chassis is more a Jeep/Chrysler creation than Mercedes. Regarding quality: IMHO the WK2 chassis in Ltd/Overland/Summit trim is in line with what I've owned from Mercedes and Audi and better than my experiences with BMW. The fit and finish for 2011/2012 is world class and if the big round "Jeep" horn pad was replaced with something less conspicuous one could easily fool a passenger into thinking it was a $90k vehicle, not that price means anything in and of itself. I agree about the past quality issues Chrysler/Jeep has had, but they have turned a corner...unlike GM.
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