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  #13  
Old 02-09-2011, 09:37 PM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

Good advice. I'm already noting the varying tax rates here in the Chicago area. Depending on the county and any corresponding city taxes, rates are varying from 7-9.25% which certainly adds up on a $40K purchase. The lowest quote I've received so far is also in the highest tax area of 8.25%.
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2011, 09:42 PM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

You can find the invoice pricing online including each option ... do a google search.

Since you want a Limited....I was recommending buying now from the lot at a bigger discount than using affiliate pricing on an order and waiting two+ months. The downside is the 430N but many people like it....and if you think it is worth it for the new 730N RHR you could swap it out using part of the savings you negotiated for one on the lot versus the affiliate pricing. Someone jumped all over me for suggesting it, but that's what I would do. Maybe you'll like the 430N and if not it will be like new anyway and sell it on eBay once you get the new 730N.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:52 PM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

As far as 730N RER, 430N, 703N RHR... I doubt you'll be upset with any. If you are then the price differance and wait time can easily be offset with a much much better after market unit.

I went with a demo because I feel I got an amazing deal with it and there is nothing like walking into a dealer and driving home with your new vehicle the same day... I am way to OCD to wait 4-8 weeks for my order to get in. I wouldn't get anything done at work.
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:54 PM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

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Originally Posted by boilermaker593 View Post
Well, here's the reason I posed the original question. The Jeep I'm looking to order with options comes to an Invoice price of $41290 including destination charge (no TTL). The Affiliate program states the discount is 1% below invoice which would bring the price down $412. One dealer, before I even talked about purchase, told me he would start at $500 below invoice. Another dealer, online and using the AAA car purchase program through Zag.com, gave me a quote of $1010 below invoice.

Earlier today, I received a quote from my local dealer for $1050 below invoice. Am I missing something with the Affiliate Pricing? I do know the only other costs are a $75 admin fee for the Affiliate program. When I talked to a rep from Chrysler's program, she also said I would be responsible for any documentation fees (which I saw on other threads here is debatable on whether or not they can charge those additional fees). She also told me I would need to go directly to a dealer to see the actual pricing. There was nothing I could get from them directly.

So I still need to add documentation fees (which an out of state dealer told me would be $129). Again, what am I missing on the Affiliate Pricing if dealers are willing to quote me more than 1% below invoice?

Nadine
Doc fees are set by the dealer and have nothing to do with the FF, Affliliate or EP pricing. Whatever their doc fee is it must be chagred to all (fed law). The $75 fee should be part of the Affiliate price (at least it is for the EP price).
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  #17  
Old 02-09-2011, 09:59 PM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

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Originally Posted by boilermaker593 View Post
Good advice. I'm already noting the varying tax rates here in the Chicago area. Depending on the county and any corresponding city taxes, rates are varying from 7-9.25% which certainly adds up on a $40K purchase. The lowest quote I've received so far is also in the highest tax area of 8.25%.

In IL your sales tax rate is calculated by your county of residence.
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Old 02-10-2011, 07:53 AM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

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Originally Posted by 2011RitterGC View Post
Doc fees are set by the dealer and have nothing to do with the FF, Affliliate or EP pricing. Whatever their doc fee is it must be chagred to all (fed law). The $75 fee should be part of the Affiliate price (at least it is for the EP price).
You are correct, Documentation fees are set by the dealer and are allowed by the Affiliate and Employee pricing programs but they have nothing to do with federal law. There are no federal laws regarding dealer fees, those are controlled by each state.

There are 4 basic types of fees associated with purchasing a new vehicle;

Title fees which are set by the state

Taxes (sales, use, personal property, Doc stamps, etc.) also set by the state,

Documentation Fees charged by the dealer to prepare and transmit these title and tax documents, set by each dealership and typically not regulated by any authority

Dealer Fees, disguised as set up fees, vehicle preparation fees and even sometimes doc fees. These are pure profit to the dealer and do not represent ANY fees required to be collected by the state or the federal government. These are set by the dealer and regulated in many states. Some states, like Texas place a cap on these at something reasonable LIKE $100. Other states, like Florida, have strange rules that were intended to protect the consumer but IMHO do exactly the opposite. Here, the dealer can set the fee to any amount they choose but under state law, if they charge ANYONE the fee then must charge EVERYONE the same fee. As strange as it sounds, after they charge the first person the fee they then must charge every one after that the same fee. This type of fee is expressly forbidden by the Affiliate and Employee pricing agreements the dealers use to get reimbursed by Chrysler for accepting these programs. The confusion sets in when a dealer, in a state that allows it, calls their dealer fee a documentation fee. The Affiliate / Employee contract the dealers have with Chrysler says they can charge it because it's a "Doc" fee but states in the same paragraph that they cannot charge for setup or prep fees.....

So, after all that is said what does it mean to you? It means look at the bottom line, the out the door price, when deciding if using the Affiliate program vs. straight negotiation and not the top line price on the contract. What you are writing the check for is the important number, the rest are just how that number is calculated.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:30 AM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

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Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post
You are correct, Documentation fees are set by the dealer and are allowed by the Affiliate and Employee pricing programs but they have nothing to do with federal law. There are no federal laws regarding dealer fees, those are controlled by each state.

There are 4 basic types of fees associated with purchasing a new vehicle;

Title fees which are set by the state

Taxes (sales, use, personal property, Doc stamps, etc.) also set by the state,

Documentation Fees charged by the dealer to prepare and transmit these title and tax documents, set by each dealership and typically not regulated by any authority

Dealer Fees, disguised as set up fees, vehicle preparation fees and even sometimes doc fees. These are pure profit to the dealer and do not represent ANY fees required to be collected by the state or the federal government. These are set by the dealer and regulated in many states. Some states, like Texas place a cap on these at something reasonable LIKE $100. Other states, like Florida, have strange rules that were intended to protect the consumer but IMHO do exactly the opposite. Here, the dealer can set the fee to any amount they choose but under state law, if they charge ANYONE the fee then must charge EVERYONE the same fee. As strange as it sounds, after they charge the first person the fee they then must charge every one after that the same fee. This type of fee is expressly forbidden by the Affiliate and Employee pricing agreements the dealers use to get reimbursed by Chrysler for accepting these programs. The confusion sets in when a dealer, in a state that allows it, calls their dealer fee a documentation fee. The Affiliate / Employee contract the dealers have with Chrysler says they can charge it because it's a "Doc" fee but states in the same paragraph that they cannot charge for setup or prep fees.....

So, after all that is said what does it mean to you? It means look at the bottom line, the out the door price, when deciding if using the Affiliate program vs. straight negotiation and not the top line price on the contract. What you are writing the check for is the important number, the rest are just how that number is calculated.
The fee I was talking about is the one listed under "Documentation Fees" in your reply. You are correct they are set by the dealer but was is covered under fed law is the fact that once the amount of that fee is set you can not change it. You HAVE to charge everyone the same fee. You can't charge one person $499 and the next $250. It must remain the same.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:52 AM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

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Originally Posted by 2011RitterGC View Post
The fee I was talking about is the one listed under "Documentation Fees" in your reply. You are correct they are set by the dealer but was is covered under fed law is the fact that once the amount of that fee is set you can not change it. You HAVE to charge everyone the same fee. You can't charge one person $499 and the next $250. It must remain the same.
I'm sorry but that is simply not correct. There are no federal laws regarding dealer, doc or any other fees charged by franchised new car dealers aside from Truth in Lending laws that require fees charged for document prep charged to finaincing customers must also be charged to cash customers or these fees must be categorized as "financing" fees which changes the effective APR.

Here's some light reading on the subject Note these are all STATE issues. Federal law only regulates interstate commerce in these matters, not the individual dealers within a state.

http://myhometownnews.net/index.php?id=40889
http://www.earlstewart.com/fscomments.htm
http://archive.flsenate.gov/data/Pub...2008-107cm.pdf
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/...r/wisebuys.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2385425/De...ees-Be-Careful

Here is the most definative read on the subject I could find, it comes from an association specifically targeted to the car dealers, not the customers.

http://www.thecomplianceguide.com/content/39

I think the fact that it's covered under Federal Truth in Lending law is where the confusion arises.

Quote:
Federal Truth in Lending permits doc fees to be charged and included in the amount financed provided they are properly itemized and disclosed in the Itemization of Amount Financed section of the Truth in Lending box on the retail installment sales contract. Case law has developed a requirement that the contract should also indicate that the dealer may retain a portion of the fees paid by the buyer if that is not otherwise clear from the contract. Truth in Lending also effectively requires that such fees not be imposed only on credit customers because if cash customers are not charged the same fees, then the fees are finance charges that must be disclosed as such and included in the APR calculation. However, Truth in Lending only relates to the disclosure and itemization of the doc fees to the consumer. The legality of a doc fee is a matter of state, and not federal, law.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:10 PM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

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Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post
I'm sorry but that is simply not correct. There are no federal laws regarding dealer, doc or any other fees charged by franchised new car dealers aside from Truth in Lending laws that require fees charged for document prep charged to finaincing customers must also be charged to cash customers or these fees must be categorized as "financing" fees which changes the effective APR.

Here's some light reading on the subject Note these are all STATE issues. Federal law only regulates interstate commerce in these matters, not the individual dealers within a state.

http://myhometownnews.net/index.php?id=40889
http://www.earlstewart.com/fscomments.htm
http://archive.flsenate.gov/data/Pub...2008-107cm.pdf
http://www.dot.wisconsin.gov/safety/...r/wisebuys.htm
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2385425/De...ees-Be-Careful

Here is the most definative read on the subject I could find, it comes from an association specifically targeted to the car dealers, not the customers.

http://www.thecomplianceguide.com/content/39

I think the fact that it's covered under Federal Truth in Lending law is where the confusion arises.
Thats my point and the Truth in Leanding Law aslo states that you can nt vary the fee from customer to customer. So we are in agreement.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:36 PM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

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Thats my point and the Truth in Leanding Law aslo states that you can nt vary the fee from customer to customer. So we are in agreement.
Yes, we are in agreement on Doc Fees that are defined as fees charged to process paperwork, including, but not limited to, lending documents. Where we diverge is in states or at dealers who use the term Doc Fees to jack up the price and add PURE PROFIT to the sale. For example, with the laws as they exist today in Florida a dealer could have a Documentation Fee AND a Dealer Fee. The Documentation Fee, if it includes anything that references the loan portion of the sale would be covered under the federal truth in lending laws. The Dealer Fee is separate and covered under the state laws we have.

Basically it's clear as mud!

My personal policy is quite simple, I Do Not pay Dealer Fees and I Do Not pay more than $50 in Documentation Fees. If the dealer insists on putting a fixed amount into the contract because "it's the law" then I require they reduce the top line price of the vehicle by that same amount or I take my business elsewhere. It's that simple.
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Old 02-10-2011, 03:19 PM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

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Originally Posted by Chi-One View Post
In IL your sales tax rate is calculated by your county of residence.
What about city taxes? In Downers Grove there is an additional 1% tax whereas next door in Naperville, there isn't that 1%. If I buy in Naperville, but live in Downers Grove (both DuPage County), how much tax do I pay?
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:13 PM
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Re: Negotiating a deal when ordering

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What about city taxes? In Downers Grove there is an additional 1% tax whereas next door in Naperville, there isn't that 1%. If I buy in Naperville, but live in Downers Grove (both DuPage County), how much tax do I pay?

Check with your town of residence to see if they tax auto sales. For some towns, their tax is remitted to the state and then the state sends it on to the municipality.
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