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  #49  
Old 08-04-2015, 11:31 AM
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Re: New Honda Pilot vs Grand Cherokee (warning…)

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Originally Posted by MDBones View Post
I'm not knocking the Pilot, even though I'd never consider buying one.

The point I was trying to make was that even in comparing these obviously dissimilar model/engine/4WD systems, the Pilot has only marginal performance advantages in a couple of areas that for the average person are meaningless.

And because of those marginal performance differences, it makes a strong argument that the GC's drivetrain really is the more efficient of the two. If you could shave 1000 lbs off the GC, those marginal differences would definitely flip in favor of the GC.

I don't think the GC would even have to knock that much weight off to more than gain those extra 2MPG on the V6.

With the 8 Speed transmission, I get well more than the rated fuel economy just by often manually shifting, which cuts down on the unnecessary downshifts. If Jeep could reconfigure the ECO mode to only downshift when a)you're losing speed while pressing the accelerator and b) when the accelerator is pressed more than halfway to the floor that would easily make up the 2MPG.

Then, upgrade the tranny to a 9 speed (which some Chrysler vehicles already have) to keep the RPMs closer to 1000 when on a flat highway at 75MPH (which is common out West). Right now, the RPMs run about 2K under the same conditions.

Finally, allow the engine to knock down to half the number of cylinders when idling or when rolling under torque or low torque loads, which would greatly increase in town and traffic jam economy. Now you've got a V6 vehicle that would easily achieve over 27MPG on the highway and 18-20 in traffic.

If they could knock 500lbs off the curb weight, that would really enhance those improvements by getting the weight closer to a flat 2 tons. Right now, it weighs more than my V8 F150 did by about 300 lbs.

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  #50  
Old 08-04-2015, 05:59 PM
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Re: New Honda Pilot vs Grand Cherokee (warning…)

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Originally Posted by ekaz View Post
The Jeep will have better resale value too.
I just traded a 5 1/2 year old pilot ex-l for my overland diesel. I got $21,500 for the pilot (cdn $) for a vehicle that originally cost $45000 inc taxes. That's 52% depreciation for 5 1/2 years. Not too many vehicles will be that good.

The only place the Pilot is better is space, and likely reliability. Nothing went wrong on the pilot except the radio(under warranty). It drove like a truck, got iffy mileage (although I am comparing it to the ecodiesel), and was ugly as sin with a CHEAP interior. I certainly did not want something bigger, also, which is why I didn't consider the '16 Pilot over my '15 GC.

The Pilot was my 2nd Honda. In both case the vehicles were technically excellent, had excellent resale, but incredibly boring with no "personality". Fingers crossed my Jeep is a reliable one, but so far I love it.
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  #51  
Old 08-04-2015, 06:43 PM
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Re: New Honda Pilot vs Grand Cherokee (warning…)

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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
I don't think the GC would even have to knock that much weight off to more than gain those extra 2MPG on the V6.

With the 8 Speed transmission, I get well more than the rated fuel economy just by often manually shifting, which cuts down on the unnecessary downshifts. If Jeep could reconfigure the ECO mode to only downshift when a)you're losing speed while pressing the accelerator and b) when the accelerator is pressed more than halfway to the floor that would easily make up the 2MPG.

Then, upgrade the tranny to a 9 speed (which some Chrysler vehicles already have) to keep the RPMs closer to 1000 when on a flat highway at 75MPH (which is common out West). Right now, the RPMs run about 2K under the same conditions.

Finally, allow the engine to knock down to half the number of cylinders when idling or when rolling under torque or low torque loads, which would greatly increase in town and traffic jam economy. Now you've got a V6 vehicle that would easily achieve over 27MPG on the highway and 18-20 in traffic.

If they could knock 500lbs off the curb weight, that would really enhance those improvements by getting the weight closer to a flat 2 tons. Right now, it weighs more than my V8 F150 did by about 300 lbs.
Hell no. Jeep, DO NOT do the eco mode suggestion, that's basically how the 11/13 jeeps (laredo) work and it ****ing sucks. It's the only reason I want to toss this thing out for something that works properly.

They're not going to do a 9 speed transmission either. An extra gear gains you nothing anymore at this point other than more frequent and unnecessary shifts. The 9 speed in the cherokee is also transverse (for FWD cars), won't work in the GC.

Knocking off weight is good. But just drop the diesel in every trim level if you want mpg, leave the transmission alone; they have trouble with the last 2 transmissions as it is, no need to stretch their engineering limits even further.

Yeah, I'm probably somewhat bitter.
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  #52  
Old 08-07-2015, 12:30 AM
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Re: New Honda Pilot vs Grand Cherokee (warning…)

I saw one today, the new ones I mean. Not impressed. Looks a lot like the current MDX.
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  #53  
Old 08-11-2015, 03:31 PM
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Re: New Honda Pilot vs Grand Cherokee (warning…)

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Originally Posted by Nikita View Post
... but let's face it, the 5.7 Hemi could be more efficient.
Let's think about that 2 MPG difference. I drive 25,000 business miles per year. That means the Grand Cherokee would use 174 more gallons per year. At $3 per gallon, the difference is a trivial $522, or $1.43 per day. The typical person drives half as much as I do, reducing the difference to $0.715 per day, or $261 per year.

Now let's goose this discussion up by comparing a vehicle rated at 16 MPG to one rated twice that, 32 MPG. At $3 per gallon, the 32 MPG vehicle would save the average driver (12,000 miles per year) just $1,125 per year, which is $3.08 per day. Whoopie! What would they have to give up for that small savings? Carrying capacity? Safety? Comfort? Enjoyment?

Anyone who is hung-up on such small amounts of money has no business buying a new vehicle!

I drive mostly in southern California, where traffic can be anything from cruising at 80 in the car pool lane to stop and go. Even so, my loaded 2014 Grand Cherokee Overland V8 achieves better than the EPA ratings.
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  #54  
Old 08-11-2015, 06:49 PM
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Re: New Honda Pilot vs Grand Cherokee (warning…)

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Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post

Then, upgrade the tranny to a 9 speed (which some Chrysler vehicles already have) to keep the RPMs closer to 1000 when on a flat highway at 75MPH
I've been watching a couple forums on the ZF 9 speed.
I owned a 15 KL and took a beating on it as they couldnt fix the tranny. ..happens to many...even on the dodge 200's
Aside from that, 9th gear is never seen unless you do 85+ downhill...no ones seen it other than that
Next, honda. They looked at putting it in the Ridgeline, but cancelled it as they needed to de tune the thing so much to get it operating smooth that they lost mpg...they abandoned it.

Dont know if this was mentioned yet here...the 16 pilots roof rails are coming off just going thru a car wash...they are changing the build for that alone
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