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  #25  
Old 09-07-2013, 10:31 AM
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Re: No GC for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsi jeep View Post
No matter how good the brake control is, for me Jeep killed the ESD for cost savings. It is closer now to Hyundai SantaFe or else. Well not really, SantaFe is still as twice as cheeper...The problem is that brake control is pulsing. It is quick but still pulsing and the wheel with traction gets more torque when ABS applied. Next moment when ABS is released the wheel with traction gets the same torque like the wheel spinning (almost nothing) because the open diferential. End result is I feel like loosing the momentum when going up hills during my test drive last winter.
With my WJ with QD I feel like the bunny - keep going and going even with old tires. No wonder why a lot of new WK2 owners do not like stock tires. It is not the tires guys....
The problem I have is that my WJ is getting old and need upgrade. Getting WK2 looks like step down for me. Not sure what I'm going to do also......
ABS System no longer needs to Pulse, it is perfectly capable of individually controlling each caliper with exacting pressure. If you ordered a 2014 JGC today it has this technology. The current ABS system is a huge improvement over older system. Much of this was due to the new FCW and full stop go Cruise HOWEVER the ABS control system is the same in the Laredo.
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  #26  
Old 09-07-2013, 10:52 AM
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Re: No GC for me.

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Originally Posted by Willx View Post
ABS System no longer needs to Pulse, it is perfectly capable of individually controlling each caliper with exacting pressure. If you ordered a 2014 JGC today it has this technology. The current ABS system is a huge improvement over older system. Much of this was due to the new FCW and full stop go Cruise HOWEVER the ABS control system is the same in the Laredo.
I think it has to let the free wheel keep slipping (some) in order to tell that it is slipping. So it can't give the right braking without giving some wrong braking.

Check out this Video. Keep in mind that the QD2 in these Videos is ELSD in front and back. I don't think any WK2's had the QD2 (ELSD in the back).



I don't think they did it for cost. I suspect they did it for Safety and very little gain in traction over BLD.
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  #27  
Old 09-07-2013, 10:59 AM
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Re: No GC for me.

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Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
I think it has to let the free wheel keep slipping (some) in order to tell that it is slipping. So it can't give the right braking without giving some wrong braking.
My point is that the ELSD is actually being controlled with the same sensors. If there is not some wrong wheel movement it wouldn't engage either because it is ELSD not just a standard old locker basd on spin ratios.

Yes, the Locker will give you better traction in the rare situations where you have 1 rear wheel with all of the traction but I can't think of examples where this would help you more unless you are rock crawling. A Lot of people mentioned SAND and that is a great example where NO wheel has 100 percent traction and send some spin for momentum purposes is very important.

I am not arguing ELSD is not better because it is BUT specifically the the notes of the OP I don't believe there is any traction advantage in his senario. In fact if he is that far out in the sticks the Jeep probably would still be better regardless.
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  #28  
Old 09-07-2013, 12:16 PM
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Re: No GC for me.

If you want ELSD get a Hemi with QDII, but you should also get the air suspension because if you get it without air suspension you'll get high centered on 10 inches of snow you're stuck anyway. I don't think the ELSD is necessary unless you're rock crawling though.
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  #29  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:01 PM
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Re: No GC for me.

Thanks, again, for the links and discussion, they've been very informative. I'm glad to admit the JGC with QTII is better than Subaru. And I would really rather own the Jeep, it's the $40K that makes it tough.

Rock crawling on purpose is not an issue. A more realistic worst case scenario is on a two track in hilly country with patches of red clay around. I'm going pretty slow downhill into a gully with an uphill in front of me. As I get towards the bottom both right tires are suddenly on wet clay, which can be as slick as black ice, IME, and lose traction. But there is a hard turn at the bottom of the gully so rocking back and forth to get some speed up isn't possible.

Will QTII get me out? I'm pretty sure QDII/ELSD would, or would stand a better chance. Would you go down that track with QTII knowing ahead what is going to happen?

Ground clearance is not an issue. You can upgrade my tires so long as I can do three days on the interstate without noise fatigue (and you tell me what tires you're using!)

Thx, PB
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  #30  
Old 09-07-2013, 08:17 PM
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We should see a test of the Subaru and the JGC in this test.
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  #31  
Old 09-07-2013, 09:20 PM
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Re: No GC for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacificblue View Post
Thanks, again, for the links and discussion, they've been very informative. I'm glad to admit the JGC with QTII is better than Subaru. And I would really rather own the Jeep, it's the $40K that makes it tough.

Rock crawling on purpose is not an issue. A more realistic worst case scenario is on a two track in hilly country with patches of red clay around. I'm going pretty slow downhill into a gully with an uphill in front of me. As I get towards the bottom both right tires are suddenly on wet clay, which can be as slick as black ice, IME, and lose traction. But there is a hard turn at the bottom of the gully so rocking back and forth to get some speed up isn't possible.

Will QTII get me out? I'm pretty sure QDII/ELSD would, or would stand a better chance. Would you go down that track with QTII knowing ahead what is going to happen?

Ground clearance is not an issue. You can upgrade my tires so long as I can do three days on the interstate without noise fatigue (and you tell me what tires you're using!)

Thx, PB
If you want QDII then you need to get a Limited with Off Road Adventure and you'll be around $38K. I ordered a limited with $1300.00 worth of options for $37,600.00. The Off Road Adventure (includes QDII) is $1800.00

If you can get by with QTII Then you need a Larado-E with the QTII. I think that will be a good 5K less (give or take, I have not priced it out).

To find those exact configs on a lot might be hard, so you might have to order it. Mine only took a month.

Both will probably come with other stuff if it's on the lot.

If you opt for a Larado I would get the QTII, but you might even get by with QTI.

Since wheels are not in the air I suspect BLD won't be wasting all the wheel spin. Keep in mind part of what it's also doing is trying to keep you going where you're steering.

My old 2002 GC had Select Trac-II (no locks) except center diff could lock. 12 years, I never got stuck. Stock tires. Steep Gravel Driveway in NH. I pull a 4500 Lb boat/trailer out in soft sand (back wheels with water up to hubs). All 4 wheels paddle through (no Brake Lock Diff). Trailer only has 1 axle and it likes to sink into sand too. My damn Kubota Tractor B2320 23 HP Diesel, with 9 Manual Gears Huge Tires has 4WD with Locks and it cannot pull the boat out. It has the power but just does not have the traction or the speed to paddle through the sand. It digs itself in. Neighbors Expedition does the same thing pulling out a 2000 Lb boat.

You really should just rent a Jeep and you'll know exactly what it can do and have peace of mind and order exactly what you need. Rent a modern Subaru too. Although I think Jeeps will be easier to find.
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  #32  
Old 09-07-2013, 10:02 PM
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Re: No GC for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mswlogo View Post
If you want QDII then you need to get a Limited with Off Road Adventure and you'll be around $38K. I ordered a limited with $1300.00 worth of options for $37,600.00. The Off Road Adventure (includes QDII) is $1800.00
.
ummmmmhhhh
ORA II w/EZH = $2221 (INV) includes QDII + QL and tow grp + 5.7 V8(EZH) $1954 (INV) required to get QDII
Limited (INV) = $36192 +$995 destination fee
$36192.
995.
2221.
1954.
_______
$41362 Invoice pricing - 4% under invoice = $39708. Good Luck
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  #33  
Old 09-07-2013, 10:36 PM
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Re: No GC for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZhiCntry View Post
ummmmmhhhh
ORA II w/EZH = $2221 (INV) includes QDII + QL and tow grp + 5.7 V8(EZH) $1954 (INV) required to get QDII
Limited (INV) = $36192 +$995 destination fee
$36192.
995.
2221.
1954.
_______
$41362 Invoice pricing - 4% under invoice = $39708. Good Luck
Thanks for the correction.

Stupid Jeep Web Site is really confusing.

AFTER you add ORA to a V6 it takes the ELSD away from ORA.

If you change to V8, the ORA price Changes and when you add ORA the ELSD now stays.
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  #34  
Old 09-07-2013, 11:14 PM
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Re: No GC for me.

MSWLOGO

I'd rather have the cloth seats, but the one thing I like about the Limited is the back up camera. Years ago a guy on a bicycle cut behind me just as I punched it backing up and I knocked him to the ground. I never saw him. Fortunately he wasn't hurt but it stuck with me all these years.

And you read newspaper stories about a parent that backed over a child in the driveway, they didn't know the kid was there. Yeesh, can you imagine?

But no back up camera on the Laredo and no QDII with the Pentstar V-6, regardless of the trim level. Grrr.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:18 AM
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Re: No GC for me.

I used to love cloth seats, my first GC had them.

But since having them on my next GC they are a must now.

I only got the limited because I hated the aluminum on the larado dash that year, could care less about leather.

I spilled whole cup a coffee on my old jeep. Wiped with a towel. Damp spunge, done.

It's like having carpet vs wood floor. Wood does absord, dirt, mold etc.

Before having them I used to think they would be more fragile than good old cloth.

I was wrong.

We have a lake house that we get in with wet bathing suites (especially when lauching the boat) , sand, wet dogs. Leather hold up better.
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  #36  
Old 09-08-2013, 08:18 AM
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Re: No GC for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pacificblue View Post
MSWLOGO

I'd rather have the cloth seats, but the one thing I like about the Limited is the back up camera. Years ago a guy on a bicycle cut behind me just as I punched it backing up and I knocked him to the ground. I never saw him. Fortunately he wasn't hurt but it stuck with me all these years.

And you read newspaper stories about a parent that backed over a child in the driveway, they didn't know the kid was there. Yeesh, can you imagine?

But no back up camera on the Laredo and no QDII with the Pentstar V-6, regardless of the trim level. Grrr.
The Leather in a Limited is not Perferated so it is extra durable... The Perf ones are more durable leather that I have seen in most vehicles but I think the Limites is just a touch tougher being without the perf.
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