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  #85  
Old 01-20-2014, 10:12 AM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

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Originally Posted by MD Boy View Post
Great post and you are by far the most objective poster in this thread. People actually defending these issues and saying, it's not a big deal, the colors are so similar and blah, blah, blah, excuse after excuse....Obviously missing the bigger picture.

Instead of saying, 'That shouldn't happen' or even admitting QC is lacking, they are feeling personally attacked (for reasons beyond me) and respond in kind with, "Well, other manufacturers do it too, so it's okay that it happens." Blind homerism at its finest.
I appreciate the thumbs up

I've been around car forums enough to get it, its fanboyism. People are so in love with their Jeeps that they want to explain away all of these things that happen because in the end it justifies them and their purchasing decisions. I'm a car fan before I'm a fan of any particular brand. I think as a real car enthusiast you need to have a certain level of impartiality. I've owned 5 Lexus vehicles, I run a Lexus board...its safe to say I'm a Lexus enthusiast...BUT...I'll be the first person to point out flaws and things they get wrong because I want the brand to succeed and build better products. One big argument on those boards is Lexus' cheapening of interior quality on the entry level cars. If you look at the interior of a new ES for instance...plastics are terrible, leather is terrible. You should see the people and their excuses for why Lexus can't make a $45,000 ES (which costs more than any ES ever has) with a interior at least as nice as previous versions of the ES. Its crazy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TurboRush
HA, you should have seen my 2011 Acura TL - at the bottom of the window had a miserable height difference at the point where it opens on all 4 doors. The driver front fender partially popped off after 10k miles, dealer claimed someone started to pry it off - yes, they managed to pry it off to get at that valuable something or another and without leaving any marks.
But again...go to an Acura forum and find me 5 threads from different people within 6 months that got Acuras with production defects. Misaligned doors, misaligned trim, missing parts, improper parts for the trim level, paint defects. ALL of that is here...all you have to do is just scan through the threads.

Again, in 10+ years of reading and posting on car forums. Some days I read for hours...I have never seen a concentration of issues both reliability wise on brand new cars and on the topic of production errors as I have seen here. Its not just the 2014...we had problems in 2011 too. Like I said, my sunroof drains were never connected at the factory and it caused water to built up in the C pillars, another member here had the same problem and it friend the computer on the Jeep that was a replacement for his previous Jeep (with 400 miles on it) that was bought back due to defects.

No bias here...I'm a Jeep owner and would like to remain one...I'm not reading things looking for problems with the Jeep.
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  #86  
Old 01-20-2014, 10:38 AM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

The 4th Gen TL community is unfortunately a ghost community (good or bad) so you won't find much anything from them.

To your point I've only seen a handful of people here as well (I am not counting transmission updates, uconnect, etc). I am not really going to debate this point further because I do not disagree that there needs to be improvements in Jeeps QC and I do not disagree there are issues with uConnect and that there were issues with the early transmission firmware. I simply disagree with the over arching statements and generalizations you make.
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  #87  
Old 01-20-2014, 11:06 AM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

A search for the term "misaligned" in the Troubleshooting forum on here brings up 5 different threads dated 11/15-now. So thats 2 months, 5 different threads about misaligned parts from the factory...and they're all different parts. Those threads all have dozens+ responses with people saying they too have a similar problem. I classify that as a lot. Thats JUST the WK2 Troubleshooting forum

If you go to ClubLexus (I only chose it because I post there)...a site much larger and busier than all of JG, let alone the WK2 section and search the whole site for the word "Misaligned" you get one thread about chrome window trim during the same period. I scrolled down past June and did not find another such thread. Thats the whole site...all Lexus models...all years.

If you go to other forums and perform the same search...you start to see what I'm talking about.
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  #88  
Old 01-20-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
Here's an interesting Car & Driver article about J.D. Powers ratings. It refers to a year when Ford dropped 18%, although C&D didn't notice a big drop in Ford quality. They seem to think that a lot of the 'complaints' were caused by people not knowing how to use the new technology, even when it was working properly. Maybe too many people depended on internet forums (the butcher, the baker, and the candlestick maker) for their information, rather than reading the owner's manual . Where have I heard that before. The Trouble With J.D. Power's Initial Quality Study - Feature - Car and Driver ---
Ford decided to use Microsoft to design their infotainment system. MS did their usual job and produced something almost unusable. Ford owners were not happy and considered the system defective (It probably was). JD Powers downgrades the rating. Seems sensible to me.
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  #89  
Old 01-20-2014, 11:21 AM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

Thats the whole point of the IQS. Its supposed to be a barometer of how satisfied buyers are with their purchase initially. Initial Quality Survey. Its not the customer's job to adapt to technology, its the manufacturer's job to design technology that the customer will like and can adapt to easily. They designed a system that was great in theory, but was a disaster in practice at first. Glitches, lags, crashes, unusable menus, confusing. When you're driving a modern car where you must use this technology to utilize the car's features problems with these systems are not trivial...whether C&D tried to spin them that way or not.

If you ever tried to use the MyFordTouch system when it first came out...its not a question of reading the manual. it just didn't work. Ford deserved to be hit for letting that mess out on the streets.
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  #90  
Old 01-20-2014, 11:33 AM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

I know that some folks here take this thread seriously. I just think it's fun.

But what did surprise me, since I don't typically follow JD Powers or Consumers unless somebody points them out, is that even the best still had 80 problems per 100. Jeep is almost 50% worse than this number, but it looks like the whole industry has a ways to go.


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  #91  
Old 01-20-2014, 12:00 PM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
But what did surprise me, since I don't typically follow JD Powers or Consumers unless somebody points them out, is that even the best still had 80 problems per 100. Jeep is almost 50% worse than this number, but it looks like the whole industry has a ways to go.
80 concerns, not necessarily problems. One of those concerns may be that they don't like the cupholders, for instance. Its meant to be a barometer of initial satisfaction with the vehicle.

Its not meant to be used as a metric of reliability.
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  #92  
Old 01-20-2014, 12:14 PM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

I missed parts of this but 1 big piece that I haven't seen discussed is the role of the dealer. Going by a look at one dealer vs the jeep site, delivery = $995 and deliver and pdi = 1,695 so my math would say that dealer charges us $700 for pdi.

At dealer rates on shop time, that is 5 or 6 hr of time, hours, not minutes. Dealer is the last line of defense and pulling the plastic off the seats doesn't take that long.

Now in the grand scheme of delivery issues, it's minor, but it sure looks bad.
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  #93  
Old 01-20-2014, 01:27 PM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
How can you say the issues are solved when people are still being delivered cars with the wrong parts?
OMG, a human made a mistake. We should take him out back and flog him. The fact of the mater is that with any mass production, there will be errors. EVERY car manufacturer has small issues. If you want a perfect world, it is not going to happen. The percentage of issues JGC is having is no greater than Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and the rest. Also, with every issue, it is covered under warranty, and the dealer will fix the problem.
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Old 01-20-2014, 01:37 PM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

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Originally Posted by Shannon View Post
OMG, a human made a mistake. We should take him out back and flog him. The fact of the mater is that with any mass production, there will be errors. EVERY car manufacturer has small issues. If you want a perfect world, it is not going to happen. The percentage of issues JGC is having is no greater than Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, and the rest. Also, with every issue, it is covered under warranty, and the dealer will fix the problem.
But then the poor, poor, Jeep owner will have to go through the trauma of bringing their car to the dealer. Further, they will go through the heart breaking embarrassment of having all the people that look at their Jeep knowing it is not perfect ... like the owner.

And, Jeep does not have somebody standing by to hold their hand while they try to navigate through life's horrors. That and loaner cars should be covered under a lifetime warranty.


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  #95  
Old 01-20-2014, 03:49 PM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post

But then the poor, poor, Jeep owner will have to go through the trauma of bringing their car to the dealer.
Unfortunately for some of us, bringing our vehicle to a Chrysler/Jeep dealership IS trauma...especially with all the bad Jeep dealerships out there. If it weren't for the formal complaint I finally logged at CCC, IMO I would not have had my TSB work done.

Quote:
And, Jeep does not have somebody standing by to hold their hand while they try to navigate through life's horrors. That and loaner cars should be covered under a lifetime warranty.
Loaners were ALWAYS offered to me when I dropped off my vehicle for warranty work (at no extra cost) at a Honda, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Subaru, or BMW dealership. Why should it be any different at a Chrysler/Jeep dealership? And my Jeep cost MORE than most of the cars I've owned.

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Old 01-20-2014, 04:20 PM
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Re: Pay close attention on that walkthrough!!

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Originally Posted by MD Boy View Post
Instead of saying, 'That shouldn't happen' or even admitting QC is lacking, they are feeling personally attacked (for reasons beyond me) and respond in kind with, "Well, other manufacturers do it too, so it's okay that it happens." Blind homerism at its finest.

Some people don't mind mediocrity; they're okay with their children being 'C' students; are okay with the status quo; and don't demand things being done right because, you know, "S*it Happens".
Ridiculous post. To think 100,000's of vehicles could be made, each containing 10's of thousands of parts and thinking not a single issue would ever arise just shows a complete lack of intelligence. Get a grip on reality.

I bet I could go to any one of your places of employment as a process auditor, read your SOP's, manuals and regulations and find tons of things you are doing incorrectly and items you overlook.
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