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Pentastar head problem reported on autoweek.

15K views 38 replies 17 participants last post by  padgett 
#1 ·
#3 ·
Seems to be a #2 cyl (driver's side front) problem. Check engine light will come on for a misfire when damage is done.

Not much info but seems to be mainly on Wranglers which have a quite different intake manifold design. Reports indicate burned valves which could result from an overly lean mixture or detonation which is odd to appear only on a forward end cyl unless the timing or injection has an issue for that cyl.

Any reports on a WK2 ?
 
#7 ·
How do you figure out where the engine was built? Does it say on the window sticker?
 
#12 ·
Yes it does say on the window sticker where the engine was built. I don't it matters though this problem has been with engines out of both plants. From what the article says they did make a design change but not everyone will have the problem. It sounds like it takes certain circumstances to create the issue. It seems one is cheap gas.
 
#13 · (Edited)
"Cheap gas"> lower octane> detonation when hot> not detecting detonation in #2> burned valves.

Yet another reason to run the engine 10% cooler.

Wonder if more common in mountain states where regular may be 85 octane.

Thinking a bit more: the specific drive cycle might be slow speed/moderate load/high engine temp (high load kicks in PE/richer mixture). Easy fix if has not happened, back off the thermostat (185F), bring in fans sooner (195F), increase knock sensor sensitivity, (optional) richen #2 a touch when coolant is above 200F. All but first are just flashes so very low cost. Thermostat is slightly more say $5 part/ .5hr labor.

or just advise to use 89 octane when rock climbing or trailer towing on a hot day.

Would explain why is being seen more in Wranglers if a major factor is how they are driven.
 
#14 ·
What I don't like is that if this "unusual mix of circumstances" happens you will get your engine fixed under warranty but if you are a mile over or a day over the 5/100K warranty and this mix happens you are screwed. IMO they should fix all the engines but I got time to see how many engines are going to be affected before trading.
 
#15 ·
I can't see Chrysler fixing all engines but there should be an extended warranty for this problem (say 8-10 years and unlimited miles). I had an 8 year warranty on my 2001 Toyota Highlander V6 for potential oil sludge problems which I was able to stave off by being good about oil changes. Car has some oil consumption issues now but the engine is just under 200K so while it could be sludge it could just be wear.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/01/toyota_sludge_settlement.html
 
#16 ·
Can bet that even if a recall is ordered, it won't be to replace heads, back in 85ish when the Fiero recall was ordered, the general added a splash shield, changed the oil filter, and remarked the dipstick.

Today the best to hope for is a new cooler thermostat but suspect the "fix" will all be computer programming.

It does seem odd that with two knock sensors they are not picking up detonation unless that is included in "misfire".

Suspect there are a lot of dyno hours being put in to determine the exact conditions but supect a major one would be to just run the engine a little bit cooler (like 10F coolant) which has a lot of side benefits.

Detonation (knock) is a funny thing. An SI engine runs best when right on the edge. Back in the day we used to "tune" for max power by advancing the distributer until you could just hear "ping" under load, then back off 2 degrees.

This is why it rarely helps and often hurts today to run premium gas (which needs more advance) with a computer designed for 87 PON (burns faster), the advance maps do not go far enough.

Have gone into a long dissertaion on PON and advance before, is not a simple subject. Won't. Just keep in mind that the SI (or CI for that matter) engine is a complex kludge designed for one thing: peak chamber pressure at 5-15 degrees (varies by engine) ATDC. Too much advance and you get detonation, too much advance with a lean mixture and Things Burn (like valves).

Until we know the cause and why it is necessary to replace a head when it occurs instead of just valves and possibly valve guides (casting defect maybe ?) we are really just guessing. All I can say is that nearing 4k miles, mine is running perfectly and has used no oil (burning oil might be an indicator).
 
#17 · (Edited)
Hi All,

My 2011 Durango (new to me as of 8/1/12) I bought used with 37k miles is scheduled to go in for left head replacement next Monday.

Threw P0302 Code according to my Scangauge. No ticking or other symptoms, just the engine light.

I actually went into the dealer armed with everything I've read on this Pentastar issue a couple weeks ago. Dropped the D in and dealer called next day confirming needs new head. Head ready to go in as of this Monday, but will have to wait until next Monday as I'm out of town for the week. Also, they are replacing the head with a remanufactured one according to the dealer.

Build date on door is 5/2011. Don't have original window sticker, so not sure if engine was made in Mexico or US? Thank goodness for the transferrable 5yr/100k powetrain warranty! I will post with update after repair.

Other than this, still lovin the Durango!
 
#33 ·
#18 ·
mine goes in tomorrow for either a camshaft sensor issue or maybe this head issue. it's the second time going in for the same camshaft issue which could very well be this problem.
 
#30 ·
New camshaft Phasers are being replaced tomorrow. No signs of a misfire, so they say. Will follow-up after I get it back and log some miles. Evidently they've replaced many camshaft phasers on the 3.6L.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Makes sense, P0302 is "Cylinder #2 Misfire Detected". If a cam or crank sensor would expect more than one cyl to be out. Wonder if the "remanufactured" head had a intake ported on #2.

BTW that one seems to result from an RPM change detected by the computer and not a knock sensor (YMMV)

Be interesting to see the factory instruction sheet on replacing the cyl head if anything is modified or something (like the foam isulator on top of the valve cover behind the oil filler tube) is left off.
 
#23 ·
I have a '11 v6 with 40k and had the head replaced under warrenty. With ~1500 miles on the new head we are heading from the Pacific Northwest to each coast for 3 weeks.
 
#25 ·
I have a '11 v6 with 40k and had the head replaced under warrenty. With ~1500 miles on the new head we are heading from the Pacific Northwest to each coast for 3 weeks.
Were there any unusual circumstances that you put the vehicle thru that would have possibly caused it? Chrysler engineers claim that the cause is unusual, as in 1/2 of 1% of all engines, although they're not saying what that is. It would be nice to know what parameters the engineers claim to have to happen for this head to go bad. Me thinks I smell a rat.:mad:
 
#32 ·
My first post here, but add me to the list of the 0.5-1%. My 2011 GC Laredo X lit up the MIL at 19,000 miles a little over a week ago. I've had it just over a year, those are all highway miles with no towing or difficult conditions, other than the high heat this summer in the Northeast. The light went out a week after it came on, but then came back on the next day. This was all during a 1,000 mile trip to OBX. I had it into the dealer today and I got the P0302 diagnosis. The new cylinder head is backordered 7-10 days.
 
#35 ·
Hi guys!

Newbie here! I just read up on this issue on the Pentastar. I live in B.C and I have purchased a near new 2012 Laredo in Washington state. I am picking it up in about 10 days. This Laredo will not have any warranty on it since I am importing it from the U.S. The savings was $10,000 but I dont get any warranty. I have purchased many near new vehicles over the last decade and never needed warranty anyway.

Is there a way or a series of vins that might that might shed some light on which engines are having? issues? I havent picked up this GC yet. Any thought or suggestions?

Thanks
Matt
 
#36 ·
Chrysler has been very non-specific about the issue thus far, only saying that certain conditions cause a problem. There isn't a year or VIN range other than they are currently producing GC with a new design head - so there is a cutoff but it is probably 2013s.

That said - if you live 'up north' and don't tow, I would guess you won't have a problem. It sounds like detonation is burning up valves which requires high heat, lots of strain on the motor, and/or bad gas.
 
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