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  #13  
Old 05-06-2014, 07:15 PM
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Re: Positioning jack stands on the WK2

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Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post
As far as I understand it, the X-pattern rotation is acceptable for four-wheel rotation on a 4wd. Thus, only two jack stands are required (on diagonal points of the vehicle).
Owners manual, and I agree, says fronts cross to rear and rears come straight forward. Plus I would not recommend jacking opposite corners at same time. Trust me, I wanna rotate myself.
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 14SummitHemi View Post
Owners manual, and I agree, says fronts cross to rear and rears come straight forward. Plus I would not recommend jacking opposite corners at same time.
Thanks for mentioning the manual's proposed rotation scheme. It's always good to document this info within these threads. However, I will note that the manual also says this is a suggested rotation pattern.

Given that I am going to rotate the tires myself, the X pattern will be my choice for the first rotation (at least). I'll place both jack stands before I remove the first tire.

I will point out that my 6 ton jack stands, at least, prohibit using more than one pair of jack stands on the vehicle, as well as prohibiting the use of two jack stands on the same side of the vehicle.

Sometimes you have to choose which guideline to violate. Aside from potential stability concerns, is there any reason not to set opposite corners on jack stands?
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Old 05-06-2014, 07:44 PM
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Re: Positioning jack stands on the WK2

^^^^

Ya, I hear ya. I am just not keen on loading/twisting a non-framed car on opposite corners....dunno, just makes me uneasy but I guess I need to noodle it more with floor jack and jacks stands in the act of doing it. It's the location of the front jack stands I don't have my mind around.

On the X thing, while it accomplishes giving the fronts a rest from that corner it ends up being a situation where LF and RR will just be switching with each other. The manual way ensures that the tires actually spend a full cycle on each of the four corners. It will lengthen their life for sure over any other rotation method but I hear ya, can only do what you can do.
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by 14SummitHemi View Post
I am just not keen on loading/twisting a non-framed car on opposite corners....dunno, just makes me uneasy but I guess I need to noodle it more with floor jack and jacks stands in the act of doing it.
Yeah, and the bulletin indicates we can't jack it via the differential, either. So, even getting the Jeep up on four stands is going to require four separate lifts (which is just so great when you need to put stands in place and want to minimize rotational load on the stands).

Quote:
It's the location of the front jack stands I don't have my mind around.
Haha, yes, hence the thread. Did you see the images linked in the first post? The front jack is in the Approved Position and then the jack stand is just... there. Somewhere.

Quote:
On the X thing, while it accomplishes giving the fronts a rest from that corner it ends up being a situation where LF and RR will just be switching with each other. The manual way ensures that the tires actually spend a full cycle on each of the four corners. It will lengthen their life for sure over any other rotation method but I hear ya, can only do what you can do.
I will consider that for next time. I am doing an early rotation, and I only have two jack stands (I'm unwilling to use the jack as a surrogate for a proper stand). If this goes well, then maybe next time I will damn the jack stands' prohibitions and get the vehicle up on four stands to do a full rotation.

Technically, only two stands are required at once to do a full rotation, provided you don't mind jacking the vehicle while one side has a wheel off and is on a stand.
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  #17  
Old 05-06-2014, 08:28 PM
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Re: Positioning jack stands on the WK2

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Originally Posted by 14SummitHemi View Post
eh, you'd have to jack each back side separate which isn't all that stable unless I'm missing something.

Also, where r u placing front stands? Under lower control arm mount? I hate those front pinch weld lift points...
No, because you have the front on two stands, then you jack the center of the rear sub-frame. Three points is the most stable configuration possible. Instead of using the pinch welds I use the ends of the front subframe where it bolts to the body. You could use the control arm mount as well.
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Yadkin View Post
No, because you have the front on two stands, then you jack the center of the rear sub-frame. Three points is the most stable configuration possible. Instead of using the pinch welds I use the ends of the front subframe where it bolts to the body. You could use the control arm mount as well.
Thanks for the ideas. I do think it's important to note that the Chrysler bulletin on the subject states, "A floor jack or any lifting device, must never be used on any part of the underbody other than the described areas." (ie. the pinch welds in front and the rear jack points)

It's a real dilemma. I realize people may decide to overrule this directive, but they should at least be aware of what it says so they can make an informed decision.
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:41 PM
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Re: Positioning jack stands on the WK2

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Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post
I will point out that my 6 ton jack stands, at least, prohibit using more than one pair of jack stands on the vehicle, as well as prohibiting the use of two jack stands on the same side of the vehicle.

Sometimes you have to choose which guideline to violate. Aside from potential stability concerns, is there any reason not to set opposite corners on jack stands?
The reason that they do that is for liability concerns, due to potential instability. You should note that in the high positions jack stands will tend to sway. Most sway more in just one direction, say fore-aft. So positioned in a pair on the front the rear tires will stabilize the vehicle.

A safe way to use four is position the two front stands at 90 degrees to each other so that they can't sway together, then do the same with the rear pair.

Don't use a pair on one side. There is no way to make that stable.

I have no idea why someone would use a pair on opposite corners. Again, no way to make it stable.
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  #20  
Old 05-06-2014, 08:52 PM
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Re: Positioning jack stands on the WK2

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Originally Posted by Roadkill View Post
Thanks for the ideas. I do think it's important to note that the Chrysler bulletin on the subject states, "A floor jack or any lifting device, must never be used on any part of the underbody other than the described areas." (ie. the pinch welds in front and the rear jack points)

It's a real dilemma. I realize people may decide to overrule this directive, but they should at least be aware of what it says so they can make an informed decision.
OMs are written for the least common denominator, so it has to be completely fool proof. And they have no reason to make life easy for you. But the subframes carry the weight of the body under dynamic loads, so their attachment points to the body are strong enough to support a jack. Most mechanics won't hesitate to use these points.
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  #21  
Old 05-06-2014, 10:52 PM
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Re: Positioning jack stands on the WK2

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Originally Posted by Yadkin View Post
No, because you have the front on two stands, then you jack the center of the rear sub-frame. Three points is the most stable configuration possible. Instead of using the pinch welds I use the ends of the front subframe where it bolts to the body. You could use the control arm mount as well.
Definitely, 3-point is very stable but the key is that third point. I can get to peace with the front jacking and jack stand locations, it's the rear now. That cross-sub member behind the rear diff looks nice and strong and flat, BUT, it's too far inboard from rear bumper. Cant' get a floor jack under and still be able to pump the jack. hrumph!

Ultimately this is a one tire set problem (for me) as the next set will have free rot/bal along for the ride. Just don't wanna pay $20 @ for ~11 rotations (Fortera HL 60k mi) especially since this only thing I would be taking it in for so then you get the 1-2hour hassle of that.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:48 AM
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Re: Positioning jack stands on the WK2

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Originally Posted by 14SummitHemi View Post
Definitely, 3-point is very stable but the key is that third point. I can get to peace with the front jacking and jack stand locations, it's the rear now. That cross-sub member behind the rear diff looks nice and strong and flat, BUT, it's too far inboard from rear bumper. Cant' get a floor jack under and still be able to pump the jack. hrumph!

Ultimately this is a one tire set problem (for me) as the next set will have free rot/bal along for the ride. Just don't wanna pay $20 @ for ~11 rotations (Fortera HL 60k mi) especially since this only thing I would be taking it in for so then you get the 1-2hour hassle of that.
I have an Acan XL floor jack that I bought at Costco for $99 that easily reaches the rear subframe center point. Although the frame is high at that point the jack does not top-out until after both rear wheels are well off the ground.

I have free rotation and balancing from Discount Tire on my replacements. To me this is so easy to do it's not worth the hassle of driving to the store, waiting at least an hour and then driving back- at least two hours plus gas. I'd rather get a little exercise in my garage.
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  #23  
Old 05-07-2014, 09:40 AM
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Re: Positioning jack stands on the WK2

Been looking for an excuse to replace my old iron Craftsman floor jack that takes full throw to jack with a slick alloy race jack that can jack with handle horizontal...BAM!
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Old 05-07-2014, 10:16 AM
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Re: Positioning jack stands on the WK2

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Originally Posted by Yadkin View Post
I have an Arcan XL floor jack that I bought at Costco for $99
These are legendary jacks, presuming you are referring to the 3.5 (later 3.25) ton Arcan XL35R version rather than the lighter 2.5 ton aluminum Arcan models that Costco sometimes stocked as well.

However, it's very hit or miss whether Costco will have it available. In fact, I'm not even certain the Costco chain even carries it anymore. It was never available on costco.com, but when I asked for it (Costco item #300930) at my local Costco they didn't even have a record for it in their database. Searching the internet indicates many other people haven't been able to find this jack at their local Costco since last year (at least). So, actually, maybe it's mostly "...or miss" now.

It's a great deal if you can find it, especially since shipping on a 100 lb jack runs about $70. Here's the equivalent jack at Northern Tool, but it will cost $225 shipped. Not to mention that returns/exchanges are basically impossible given the freight cost. Jacks just don't seem to be amenable to online purchases, and local retailer selection often sucks.
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