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  #13  
Old 09-16-2012, 10:52 PM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

Be interesting to see how the deal works out, the new one sounds like a nice set if you do not off road much & I see you have another for that. The key is how much you want the hemi and other options. The "X" is probably the best overall value.

Obviously part is going to depend on where you are, the 4x2 is going to be more salable in southern flatlands than northern mountains.

One thing I have noticed is that the price of everything is going up from meat to batteries despite a stagnant economy (maybe is just the dollar going down) so expect the sticker for '14s to be "adjusted".
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Old 09-17-2012, 05:55 AM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Originally Posted by padgett View Post
Be interesting to see how the deal works out, the new one sounds like a nice set if you do not off road much & I see you have another for that. The key is how much you want the hemi and other options. The "X" is probably the best overall value.

Obviously part is going to depend on where you are, the 4x2 is going to be more salable in southern flatlands than northern mountains.

One thing I have noticed is that the price of everything is going up from meat to batteries despite a stagnant economy (maybe is just the dollar going down) so expect the sticker for '14s to be "adjusted".
yeah i know, cant even get a gallon of milk for under $3 anymore, that's why i may not wait until the 14's come out since i still have fairly good value in my current WK2 with only 4k miles,it seems the used GCs where i live sell just as well as the new ones,so the dealer wouldn't have any trouble reselling it if i trade. well see what happens..
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:01 AM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Originally Posted by Knightrider03m View Post
IMO, both the 3.6L and the 5.7L is below their class.

Anyway, I can't see going from a 4wd to a 2wd. Plus that will hurt you in the resale.


How is the 5.7 below it's class? It has a great deal of torque and does 0-60 in 7 seconds.
The Audi Q7 struggled on hills, lacked torque. We walked away.
The X5 was quick but has minimal off-road ability.
The LR4 felt about as fast and lots of torque but handled worse.

The short list above really only gives one car that's truly in the GC class and that's the LR4, a equally capable off-road/road going machine.
But really, please show how the 5.7 is below it's class. Several full size SUV's trail it in power, or you can jump for a VW Touareg hybrid at close to 70K and STILL not match the GC offroad capability.
Honestly, when you talk about "Class" the GC only has a few rivals since it's off-road 4x4 system is a class leader. A few other mid size SUVs are better road cars, but they can't go where the GC can.

In V6 trim the GC does trail the class. It's not awful, but certainly weak.


Robert
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:07 AM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
So you're expecting them to sell you their 2012 at a dirt cheap price, despite the fact that the WK2 is selling well, and give you top dollar for your lower model 2012? AND then pay the sales tax for you?

All I can say is, good luck.


Lots of variables could work out to create a great deal. My dealer sold me a 2012 Dark forest green Overland, Hemi v8, Adaptive cruise, SB interior, summit grill for just under 42K once all our rebates were applied. But just as important was that they gave us a whopping $1500 more on our trade than anyone else would. Reflecting back to it last month I think they absolutely overpaid for the trade, but they were (as they explained) trying to hit end-of-month numbers.
So go for it and see what happens.

Good luck!


Robert
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:00 PM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Originally Posted by CaptRB View Post
How is the 5.7 below it's class? It has a great deal of torque and does 0-60 in 7 seconds.
The Audi Q7 struggled on hills, lacked torque. We walked away.
The X5 was quick but has minimal off-road ability.
The LR4 felt about as fast and lots of torque but handled worse.

The short list above really only gives one car that's truly in the GC class and that's the LR4, a equally capable off-road/road going machine.
But really, please show how the 5.7 is below it's class. Several full size SUV's trail it in power, or you can jump for a VW Touareg hybrid at close to 70K and STILL not match the GC offroad capability.
Honestly, when you talk about "Class" the GC only has a few rivals since it's off-road 4x4 system is a class leader. A few other mid size SUVs are better road cars, but they can't go where the GC can.

In V6 trim the GC does trail the class. It's not awful, but certainly weak.


Robert
The only vehicle that comes close to the Jeep is the GX460/4Runner, but it can't match the Jeep's features as a 4Runner, and is HUGELY more expensive as a GX460. Plus, the side hinged rear door is stupid, I get that it's supposed to add character, but it's stupid. And no panoramic moonroof, which sucks. Plus the V8 is a bit lacking in the power.

The ML550 is certainly a worthy adversary (sister) but fails in off road and massacres in on road performance. But I don't need a 14 second luxury SUV.

The only other vehicle that can nearly best the Jeep is the Range Rover. The Jeep loses some interior quality and performance, but many of the features it has appeal to me less than the panoramic moonroof it lacks. The new Range Rover will surely decimate the Jeep though, at a price of 2x as much.

And that was why I bought mine. It bested even the Range Rover in the categories important to me. Sure the Range Rover is faster, has more leather in places that don't matter, and has a totally different aura about it, but the overall package in the Jeep was better for my use. Not even getting into the money difference (which surprisingly was minimal - you can get a NICE used Range Rover for the money I paid for my Jeep).

That and the LR dealer is an hour away.
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Old 09-17-2012, 06:59 PM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
The only vehicle that comes close to the Jeep is the GX460/4Runner, but it can't match the Jeep's features as a 4Runner, and is HUGELY more expensive as a GX460. Plus, the side hinged rear door is stupid, I get that it's supposed to add character, but it's stupid. And no panoramic moonroof, which sucks. Plus the V8 is a bit lacking in the power.

The ML550 is certainly a worthy adversary (sister) but fails in off road and massacres in on road performance. But I don't need a 14 second luxury SUV.

The only other vehicle that can nearly best the Jeep is the Range Rover. The Jeep loses some interior quality and performance, but many of the features it has appeal to me less than the panoramic moonroof it lacks. The new Range Rover will surely decimate the Jeep though, at a price of 2x as much.

And that was why I bought mine. It bested even the Range Rover in the categories important to me. Sure the Range Rover is faster, has more leather in places that don't matter, and has a totally different aura about it, but the overall package in the Jeep was better for my use. Not even getting into the money difference (which surprisingly was minimal - you can get a NICE used Range Rover for the money I paid for my Jeep).

That and the LR dealer is an hour away.


I wanted to like the LR4. It was not much more expensive that the Overland and it had the cool name. But it also has a terrible reputation. It took three tries to test one out. 1st try and the dealer could not unlock the LR4 doors with the remote. 2nd try with a second LR4 and this time it would not start, though it had been driven only 10 minutes before!
I finally drove one that belonged to a fellow at my yachtclub and all he could say was NEVER AGAIN. He'd had trouble from day one, especially with the electrical stuff.
Until LR gets it together for reliability they will sit at the BOTTOM of the class for educated drivers.


Robert
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:58 PM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Originally Posted by gc4x4 View Post
Im hoping that they'll give me a deal on it, i like to play hardball and they know that i will walk away if they don't get the numbers right, and im going to make them pay the sales tax this time. I will keep you guys updated tomorrow and see what transpires.
Yea there has been times were I've walked away from the sales seat. I tell them up front that I will not pay doc fees or any other bullshit that they like to add on. Their hold back should cover those type of fees.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptRB View Post
How is the 5.7 below it's class? It has a great deal of torque and does 0-60 in 7 seconds.
The Audi Q7 struggled on hills, lacked torque. We walked away.
The X5 was quick but has minimal off-road ability.
The LR4 felt about as fast and lots of torque but handled worse.

The short list above really only gives one car that's truly in the GC class and that's the LR4, a equally capable off-road/road going machine.
But really, please show how the 5.7 is below it's class. Several full size SUV's trail it in power, or you can jump for a VW Touareg hybrid at close to 70K and STILL not match the GC offroad capability.
Honestly, when you talk about "Class" the GC only has a few rivals since it's off-road 4x4 system is a class leader. A few other mid size SUVs are better road cars, but they can't go where the GC can.

In V6 trim the GC does trail the class. It's not awful, but certainly weak.


Robert
The WK2 is not a luxury SUV nor is it full sized. Stop trying to make it into one. Stop trying to compare it to one. People now and days think if they have a little bit of chrome, leather seats, and HIDs that they somehow have a luxury car/suv.

0-60 doesn't mean crap. The likely hood of you ever truly needing to go from 0 to 60 in the real world is next to none. IF and only if we were talking about sports cars is when I would care about 0-60 times. Now for real comparisons, The Explorer, pathfinder, highlanders all have V6 engines that cost less to own than the 5.7L V8 and can all put in the same work. The only thing that the HEMI has over those cars is how much you can tow. The WK2 drivetrain is yesterday tech. Maybe all will change with the new 8 speed that is coming out but until then it is what it is.
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Old 09-17-2012, 07:58 PM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Old 09-17-2012, 08:28 PM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Originally Posted by Knightrider03m View Post
The WK2 is not a luxury SUV nor is it full sized. Stop trying to make it into one. Stop trying to compare it to one. People now and days think if they have a little bit of chrome, leather seats, and HIDs that they somehow have a luxury car/suv.
So what keeps the Overland from being a luxury SUV?

Nice audio system: Check (And before this gets into a pissing contest about stereos sucking - the Alpine system is easily class average. It's at least as god as the "premium" Lexus system in RX350, easily bests the Bose system in the SRX, and sounds much nicer than the Sony system in Edge and whatever they put in MKX.)
Fantastic Nappa leather: Check
Hugely advanced air suspension and amazingly smooth ride: Check
Premium levels of style and class: Check
Powertrain that makes moving the vehicle around: Check (with V8)
Every feature one could want: Check
Incredibly low cabin noise: Check

The only thing it's missing that would make it a "true" luxury SUV is the sticker. It's as much (actually, more) of a luxury SUV than you can buy at Cadillac or Lincoln, that's for sure. Does it come with its own concierge and a commoner to hold your umbrella for you? No. But last I checked, neither do any of the "luxury" SUVs.

I'm not going to say it's the greatest vehicle ever, there's certainly a few quality issues here and there (which you'll find on "true luxury SUVs" too), the only thing I can see is there's some plastics that are quite clearly cheap and not leather. But again, guess what, you'll find those on a "luxury" SUV too.

Though frankly, I'm sure that the new Bentley SUV will blow everything else away in terms of what a true luxury SUV is.
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Old 09-17-2012, 09:39 PM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Yea there has been times were I've walked away from the sales seat. I tell them up front that I will not pay doc fees or any other bullshit that they like to add on. Their hold back should cover those type of fees.




The WK2 is not a luxury SUV nor is it full sized. Stop trying to make it into one. Stop trying to compare it to one. People now and days think if they have a little bit of chrome, leather seats, and HIDs that they somehow have a luxury car/suv.

0-60 doesn't mean crap. The likely hood of you ever truly needing to go from 0 to 60 in the real world is next to none. IF and only if we were talking about sports cars is when I would care about 0-60 times. Now for real comparisons, The Explorer, pathfinder, highlanders all have V6 engines that cost less to own than the 5.7L V8 and can all put in the same work. The only thing that the HEMI has over those cars is how much you can tow. The WK2 drivetrain is yesterday tech. Maybe all will change with the new 8 speed that is coming out but until then it is what it is.

Wow, you really don't know what makes a luxury SUV. By your standards the Audi Q7 would never qualify and you seem to have no regard for driving dynamics, which include handling and acceleration at speed and from a standstill. BTW, the Overland is more luxurious than the Q7 we tested, just as quiet, better legroom, more power, and of course it's got a better 4x4 system. Some of the switchgear in the Q7 was nicer, so if that's what a luxury SUV means, please pay at the door.
The Overland with Hemi is a luxury SUV in every respect. So is the LR4 or Audi or BMW X5 which trail it's abilities in many respects. Most people who bought Overlands and SUmmits certainly paid luxury dollars!
Your notion that many V6 engines do the same work is uneducated. Even from a safety standpoint the Hemi is superior. As for the drivetrain, I find little to no fault with it and I will wait at least 2 years + before risking adoption of the 8 speed.


Robert
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:22 PM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

Well, i test drove the 12' Hemi Laredo X this morning and i was impressed with the acceleration and how smooth the hemi is, It is brilliant black with tan leather, sunroof, etc, very nice vehicle. I think the ride is alot better with the 20 in wheels imo. the dealer has marked it down from $40k to $34k and im still negotiating with them,i made an appt tomorrow to see if a deal can be ironed out(didn't want them to think i was too interested lol) Im hoping they'll come down a bit more, so well see what happens tomorrow. the saga continues..
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Old 09-17-2012, 10:27 PM
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Re: Possible trade for a WK2 Hemi, need advice from hemi owners

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
So what keeps the Overland from being a luxury SUV?

Nice audio system: Check (And before this gets into a pissing contest about stereos sucking - the Alpine system is easily class average. It's at least as god as the "premium" Lexus system in RX350, easily bests the Bose system in the SRX, and sounds much nicer than the Sony system in Edge and whatever they put in MKX.)
Fantastic Nappa leather: Check
Hugely advanced air suspension and amazingly smooth ride: Check
Premium levels of style and class: Check
Powertrain that makes moving the vehicle around: Check (with V8)
Every feature one could want: Check
Incredibly low cabin noise: Check
You said EVERYTHING that I said that makes people "think" they have a luxury SUV

A true luxury car/suv will have all of those things included in their cars from the base model on up. What do you get with a laredo? Hell, how about a Limited? You people buy your Overlands and Summits then try to pose as if you guys really got something. Same thing happen with the Chrysler 300 group walking around thinking they got a "mini RR" (or Bentley forgot which one) You can put some cheap $5 whiskey in the bottle of whiskey that cost over $100. At the end of the day, you still have a $5 bottle of whiskey.


Even Chevy Sonics have low cabin noise.... its the sign of the times and better/cheaper sound damping tech.

Quote:
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Wow, you really don't know what makes a luxury SUV. By your standards the Audi Q7 would never qualify and you seem to have no regard for driving dynamics, which include handling and acceleration at speed and from a standstill. BTW, the Overland is more luxurious than the Q7 we tested, just as quiet, better legroom, more power, and of course it's got a better 4x4 system. Some of the switchgear in the Q7 was nicer, so if that's what a luxury SUV means, please pay at the door.
The Overland with Hemi is a luxury SUV in every respect. So is the LR4 or Audi or BMW X5 which trail it's abilities in many respects. Most people who bought Overlands and SUmmits certainly paid luxury dollars!
Your notion that many V6 engines do the same work is uneducated. Even from a safety standpoint the Hemi is superior. As for the drivetrain, I find little to no fault with it and I will wait at least 2 years + before risking adoption of the 8 speed.
Robert
I know what luxury is. I'm just not easily impressed by cheap knock offs. If your Overlands are sooooo luxury, call road side to change out your flat tire. Oh wait, you can't..... its not covered. Go up to the dealership and after the service writer gets done with taking care of the Jeep Patriot and/or Dodge Caliber, ask them for a rental car since your car is going to be down for an oil change. Oh wait, you can't. Well maybe they will give you a car if your car is down for a few days for warranty work. Oh wait, they don't have that too?

Prove me wrong on the V6s. You can't. All of the cars that I said above is comparable to the 5.7L but cost less for upkeep. Safety standpoint? Really? Like what? Overtaking a mom in her minivan on the highway? If she has the 3.6L in her minivan then you would really be screwed. Get real. The only WK made that is truly impressive for speed, braking, and handling is the SRT8, anything else is just a SUV to tow or to transport.
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