NHTSA says a badly-designed automatic shifter is confusing drivers, causing them to exit a vehicle that's still in gear. 121 crashes and 30 injuries have been reported. The investigation involves 2014 and 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokees, 2012-2014 Dodge Chargers and 2012-2014 Chrysler 300s
The Detroit News reports that the NHTSA is conducting an engineering analysis on more than 856,000 Fiat Chrysler vehicles. The agency has received reports of 314 roll-away incidents, involving 121 crashes and 30 injuries, caused when drivers exited a vehicle after they thought they'd shifted into Park.
I'd say it's more along the lines of badly designed drivers...
Having said that, this does bring up a pet peeve I have with the transmission: It's an electronic shifter. So why does it bark at me when I try to turn the car off when it's not in park? Why wouldn't it just put itself in park when I hit the run button, then shut off?
While not something that happens often, I have had times where I've stopped somewhere expecting to pull away soon after, but end up sitting longer than I originally planned. When I stopped, I didn't bother to put it in park, but when I realize I'm not leaving right away, I might decide to turn the engine off. That's when I here "ding" and it tells me I'm not in Park. It's not that I don't know to put it in Park, it's that I forgot I didn't shift to Park when I thought I wasn't going to be sitting very long.
OK, instead of telling me to put it in Park, just do it and shut off. Why take the risk I might be one of those people that's going to hop out without checking things? I'm not, but the car doesn't know that...
I'd say it's more along the lines of badly designed drivers...
Having said that, this does bring up a pet peeve I have with the transmission: It's an electronic shifter. So why does it bark at me when I try to turn the car off when it's not in park? Why wouldn't it just put itself in park when I hit the run button, then shut off?
While not something that happens often, I have had times where I've stopped somewhere expecting to pull away soon after, but end up sitting longer than I originally planned. When I stopped, I didn't bother to put it in park, but when I realize I'm not leaving right away, I might decide to turn the engine off. That's when I here "ding" and it tells me I'm not in Park.
OK, instead of telling me to put it in Park, just do it and shut off. Why take the risk I might be one of those people that's going to hop out without checking things? I'm not, but the car doesn't know that...
Interestingly if something came of this investigation, wouldn't that be a potential fix as it could be done w/ a SW only update? Cheapest fix for them...
There could be some more safety features built in to prevent Darwin awards. If you open driver's door while car is running, force it into park. If you hit the run button while car is sitting still, force it into park.
At the end of the day, it is just people being idiots though. They aren't paying attention. They push the lever forward and maybe let off too soon and car is actually in reverse. Not paying attention, probably yacking on their cell phone, so they don't hear the Start Button beeping to alert them and then they just rush out of the car. We won't even get into not using the parking brake.
I can admit to having done the above on occasion.
Everything has to be dumbed down to lowest common denominator.
Park to Drive --- easy.
Drive to Park --- easy.
Park to reverse --- easy.
Drive to reverse --- not as easy as can select neutral by mistake if not paying attention but again it is in neutral so not like it is in gear.
I find the lever awkward, especially when going from drive to reverse. I could easily see how people could mistakenly select R instead of P.
Has anyone tried rocking the Jeep from D to R and back to D (several times) after getting stuck, I have and it was not easy getting back to R each time.
I have tried to rock it, it's extremely difficult.
When stuck in a rut on a trail my eyes are looking at the boulder 2" away from my door or making sure when I pop up over the rock I don't go 2" to far and head over the 100' cliff.
When rocking its all about timing the shifter with the momentum of the vehicle & the shifter needs to provide real time feed back to do this. I do not get this feedback with this shifter. I wonder if they actually tested this in any real world conditions. It's just frustrating!
This shifter is vague, but it does have a fail safe feature. I tried to turn it off today while I was in neutral, and it wouldn't shut down. I'm not sure how people are getting run over when they exit the car and it's not in park, unless they keep the engine running. When I get out, I always set the parking brake, which a lot of people don't do. When I exit my cars, I always shut them down. I almost always put the car in park when anyone else exits or enters, to avoid an accident in having the car move while someone is around it. To put the car in Park, I just push it forward and hold it, and then visually check the range indicator to be sure it's in park. You can't put it in park by feel, like my other cars. It was confusing at first, but after a a few months, I almost always get it in the right range by feel, and I know to to do a visual check of the range indicator just to be sure.
As I noted earlier, that's a stupid feature. When you try to shut it off, it should just go into park before shutting down. For liability sake, why not do it?
While people should pay attention, the truth is they often don't. They don't check and double check anything. If they did, nearly all failure to yield right of way accidents would be prevented.
I'm not sure how people are getting run over when they exit the car and it's not in park, unless they keep the engine running.
Good practice, but they pretty much ensured most people won't the day they invented that stupid pedal style parking brake. What a stupid interface that is, especially now that even the brakes are electronically applied. Just make it a little pull tab on the center console as though its one of the old hand brakes.
When I exit my cars, I always shut them down. I almost always put the car in park when anyone else exits or enters, to avoid an accident in having the car move while someone is around it.
Not exactly practical when hooking up a trailer or other activities that might require you to maneuver between hopping in and out.
To put the car in Park, I just push it forward and hold it, and then visually check the range indicator to be sure it's in park. You can't put it in park by feel, like my other cars. It was confusing at first, but after a a few months, I almost always get it in the right range by feel, and I know to to do a visual check of the range indicator just to be sure.
You don't have to hold it. Just push it hard. You won't break it.
Further, you may not be able to feel it in the shifter, but you can through the steering wheel and pedals when the interlock kicks in. Likewise, you can feel it go into gear when you hit reverse or drive from park vs neutral. In either case, the car kind of gives a little thunk and feels like it wants to move.
They can say what they want. But mine rolled down my son’s driveway 3 times. One of those times we stood there and watched it. And it was in P for sure. I agree going from D-R is one of those pay attention moments. Staring at the dash or the shifter as I’d do that makes me feel like that old gal in the parking lot staring at the dash while they shift because they don’t have a clue where it is.
Prior to this type of shifter and 45 years on the road I never had this issue.
Except when I was shifting a standard with my left hand in a car in Ireland. While making sure I was on the correct side of the road. That took some time.
In the recall and reprogram they are going to have to make it so it is park before it is off. I thought first it was operating error, but there is alot of driving people that are having problems with this design.
I was a bit concerned after reading this article prior to going out to look at some newer Grands. A 2001 limited has been my daily for about 10yrs now and going to this newer shifter almost had me reconsidering the new models. But, test drove a few and decided it was a non-issue. Haven't had any problems and neither has my wife (which was my biggest concern). Just need to pay attention to what you're doing and it'll be fine. That being said, with the number of drivers that don't pay attention to what they're doing, I'm not surprised accidents happen.
This is just further proof the world is progressing toward a state of complete idiocy. There is nothing confusing about the shifter, and also reinforces that no one bothers to pay attention to the TWO gear indicators. This is like the people that leave their engines running in their garage because of their intelligent keys, but blame the intelligent key system rather than themselves for not paying attention. The slight initial frustration is in changing between gears like reverse and drive, NOT figuring out whether you are in PARK or DRIVE, because the "throw" is a lot shorter than other vehicles. No worse than the gated shifters that were popular for so long and felt completely abnormal. People hate change and yet demand new technology. In under a day of driving the Jeep, I knew how to tell by FEEL alone which gear I selected.
I am amazed every vehicle today does not have just four buttons on the dash for selecting gears...certainly, it would prevent confusion for these poor people...
As MANY people have stated, after driving other vehicles for MANY years, this design simply isn't intuitive, compared to what we drove in the past. AND, it's further compounded by those of us who have other cars in our family fleet, therefore we're using other shifters and/or we don't drive the Jeep daily. My wife has 2 Jags, and they have electronic shifters, yet they work in a far simpler way than the Jeep. Why? Because they have detents, like shifters have had for DECADES.
Secondly, to those who profess that "all you have to do is look either at the dash indicator or the gear selector", consider that for the LAST 40 Years, I didn't have to look at the gear selector, because as I stated in a previous post, "3 clicks from Park, and I was in Drive".....OR "3 clicks from Drive, and I was in Park"......a VERY SIMPLE design that wasn't broken, therefore didn't need fixing.....
This isn't the first vehicle Ive driven.....
Its also the EXACT same as you say above for this shifter. 3 clicks down to drive...3 back up. 1 click to reverse...1 click back up.
I think it's the best shifter I've used push all the way back and your in drive all the way forward and your parked just 1 pull back and your in reverse
I think it's the best shifter I've used push all the way back and your in drive all the way forward and your parked just 1 pull back and your in reverse
There should be NO NEED to COUNT the number of click, detents, or notches with a properly designed automatic transmission.
All the way forward and to the right........Reverse
All the way forward and to the left..........Park
All the way back (from either Park or Reverse.....Drive
Push all the way forward without pressing a button.....Neutral
The shifter on the 2014/15 Jeep Grand Cherokee requires you to COUNT the number of detents/clicks/notches in order to go from DRIVE to REVERSE. That BTW is my ONLY Real Problem with it. Trying to shift from Drive to Reverse in Any kind of Emergency or Urgent situation has a HIGH POSSIBILITY of FAILING, which would result in you ending up in the Wrong Gear (Neutral or Park most likely). This is simply unacceptable in what is supposed to be a Modern Vehicle.
It has nothing to do with drivers not "understanding" or properly "learning" to use the transmission. The Basic Design is flawed.
One of the articles I read talked about 'muscle memory'. Certain things we do over and over again we do automatically. With a turn signal, up is left and down is right. The lever doesn't go left and right.
If Jeep decided to switch that it would still work just as well. Some would say, no problem. If you can't figure it out you shouldn't be driving. In reality, we don't think about up being left every time we make a left. Our hand instinctively pushes a lever up for a left.
This is why shifting to and from sport mode is not initially instinctive. We are used to going in the opposite direction to reverse an action.
I'm looking forward to hearing from owners of the new Grands to see their reaction, in particular those that had 14 &15's
One of the articles I read talked about 'muscle memory'. Certain things we do over and over again we do automatically. With a turn signal, up is left and down is right. The lever doesn't go left and right.
..... In reality, we don't think about up being left every time we make a left. Our hand instinctively pushes a lever up for a left.
This is why shifting to and from sport mode is not initially instinctive. We are used to going in the opposite direction to reverse an action.
I'm looking forward to hearing from owners of the new Grands to see their reaction, in particular those that had 14 &15's
While I totally agree with your theory, I have to ask what country you live in. In America, with left hand drive vehicles, a left turn signal actuation is completed by pivoting the signal lever DOWN, and a right turn is signaled by pivoting the lever UP. Nonetheless, as you say, it's an ingrained action, no matter what vehicle you drive, just like the accelerator is on the right and the brake to the left, the clutch, far left.
For the safe operation of some control functions, that is why the US government mandated certain things, like a uniform gear selection for automatic transmission shifters, P-R-N-D-L. And in that respect, the Jeep shifter even defies that, as the Jeep puts the "Sport" actuation in the position that is normally where you would expect to find "Low"......
Not so sure about that. If you're at a light, and you happen to let your hand rest on that just as the light turns green, do you suddenly find yourself sitting there in Park?
Good question, especially for someone (like myself) that frequently drives manual transmission equipped cars. Frequently, you rest your hand on the shifter, in preparation for the next gear change....
Not so sure about that. If you're at a light, and you happen to let your hand rest on that just as the light turns green, do you suddenly find yourself sitting there in Park?
Re: FCA Training Academy - Course #2016-wk-shift-33B
Course name: Electronic Shifter - Grand Cherokee
Dates: March-May 2016
Locations: 44 Major Cities, dates and times TBD
Description: 3-day training course covering all aspects of the operation of the Grand Cherokee electronic shifter.
Day 1: (8 hours*) Shifting from Park to Reverse
Day 2: (8 hours*) Shifting from Park to Drive
Day 3: (8 hours*) Shifting from Park to neutral, or from Drive to Neutral
*Includes 60-minute mid-day lunch break
Cost: No charge for owners of 2011-2016 model year Jeep Grand Cherokees (VIN required)
Re: FCA Training Academy - Course #2016-wk-shift-33B
Course name: Electronic Shifter - Grand Cherokee
Dates: March-May 2016
Locations: 44 Major Cities, dates and times TBD
Description: 3-day training course covering all aspects of the operation of the Grand Cherokee electronic shifter.
Day 1: (8 hours*) Shifting from Park to Reverse
Day 2: (8 hours*) Shifting from Park to Drive
Day 3: (8 hours*) Shifting from Park to neutral, or from Drive to Neutral
*Includes 60-minute mid-day lunch break
Cost: No charge for owners of 2011-2016 model year Jeep Grand Cherokees (VIN required)
14' owner here with no issues at all with the shifter. I can actually close my eyes and shift to the desired gear. Just come back from the auto show and saw in person the new shifter. Very cheap looking POS. I'm mad on all the cry babies that made FCA to change something fancy with something from the 90's. Also mad on FCA to not making it simple and keeping the old style shifter and just adding PARK button on the side like BMW and no more issues with going to park. Then you have only 3 choices R-N-D and even the 6yrs old should be fine with shifting.....
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