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  #37  
Old 11-05-2010, 09:05 AM
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Re: Quality Control Process

Marlon, I really did not mean to accuse you of lying! My posts were more along the lines of; "based on my experience, I find that hard to believe". It was THAT bad while I was at Trenton and Warren Truck.

BEERnALE, slow your roll, son. You have no idea what I suffered at Trenton Engine plant, or Warren Assembly. Absolute terrorist harassment, both from union and management, verbal abuse, and way more that had to be handled in a court of law. Never assume you know me or my situation. I swear to all that any hold holy or sacred this all started because I dared to have a "work ethic" and refused to sit back and milk the job for all it was worth. My 3rd day on the job the team leader( a union member) threatened to break my jaw if I didn't stop working faster than what the previous guy before me had done.

Marlon, I had no idea such change had been implemented. As of a little over a year ago, I spoke to a close friend I have that still works in Trenton Engine, and he told me there, it was business as usual. The way you speak, it sounds as if you are part of a better process making a product you can be proud of. Something that could never have been said about my time in the company.

My problem with unions goes a little beyond my own private experience though. BEERnALE admitted there were people he knew with only a few years seniority making 30/hour sweeping floors. That was very true and I knew many like that too. The problem I have is there are too many people who think they deserved that money, and lament the loss of that job and/or pay. i don't acre who you are or where you work, NO SWEEPING JOB IS WORTH 30/HOUR!!! Thank god those days are gone. Now, make wages and raises merit/performance-based, and you've got my vote back.
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  #38  
Old 11-05-2010, 10:23 AM
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Re: Quality Control Process

SOTI, well said. I was only coming back hard because of your initial tone toward Marlon, and that things really have changed quite a bit.

The funny thing is that both you and Marlon are saying some of the same things, but just somewhat differently.

I know of a stamping and powertrain plant where they are experiencing the same atmosphere as Marlon on the lines, but that the skilled trades positions (machine repair, fabrication, etc.) are still somewhat old-school. But even the old-school areas are seeing major changes, as retirement buyouts are allowing for a reduction in staffing, and the hiring of new staff at much lower wages.

I'm American through-and-through, and have only owned American vehicles. (Well, except for a 10 year stint when I lived in England, but even then I had my Wrangler!) BUT, if you really want to see something impressive, visit the Honda Plant in Marysville (Columbus), Ohio! Amazing!

SOTI, I'll buy you a beer too.
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  #39  
Old 11-05-2010, 01:48 PM
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Re: Quality Control Process

I can't stand my Team Leader either, but our relationship isn't that bad.

I dunno about anyone else but I don't like to be in "The Hole". So I work just fast enough to keep myself out of it.
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  #40  
Old 11-05-2010, 06:00 PM
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Re: Quality Control Process

Both SOTI's and Marlon's experiences and views are valid. No question, union labor has created as many problems as they have successes for the US auto business. No question, management has facked it up just as bad for US autos.

FWIW, union labor in our business creates terrible service standards, unearned job security, and above market wages and benefits. There's little to no meritocracy. Strong arm union stunts are common, and harm both the business and its union employees. Pretty similar to SOTI's view. Despite this structure, there are many examples of overperformers who rise above this mess simply because they have pride and self motivation, like Marlon.

Hopefully, change has occured because of both of the above realities, and because neither the employee nor business will succeed otherwise. IMO, we are seeing the result of that change first hand with the WK2's high quality, fit & finish, and value proposition.

Many of us are already betting on it by buying these rigs.
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  #41  
Old 11-06-2010, 01:12 AM
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Re: Quality Control Process

SOTI's view is certainly valid. I know it for a fact. But it's just not THAT BAD anymore is all I've said. Believe me, I've heard the stories. Over and over. And over and over and over and over.

Glad someone has admitted that management does NOT help matters, and in some cases makes things worse.

Nobody is innocent.
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  #42  
Old 11-06-2010, 01:45 AM
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Re: Quality Control Process

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlon_JB2 View Post
SOTI's view is certainly valid. I know it for a fact. But it's just not THAT BAD anymore is all I've said. Believe me, I've heard the stories. Over and over. And over and over and over and over.

Glad someone has admitted that management does NOT help matters, and in some cases makes things worse.

Nobody is innocent.
Crappy unions are usually found where there is crappy management, and pre-bankruptcy GM and its UAW locals are poster children for this.

That said, it's great and hugely useful to have you on board here. So a big thanks for all you've been doing both here and in helping to put together our sturdy babies.
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:11 AM
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Re: Quality Control Process

I'm just afraid that after a few years, once people "forget" about the billions of tax dollars handed over to those companies, things will return to the old status quo.
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  #44  
Old 11-06-2010, 10:39 AM
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Re: Quality Control Process

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lingohocken View Post
Crappy unions are usually found where there is crappy management, and pre-bankruptcy GM and its UAW locals are poster children for this.

That said, it's great and hugely useful to have you on board here. So a big thanks for all you've been doing both here and in helping to put together our sturdy babies.
Ahem, I was here way before I started working there, just to let you know.
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