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  #13  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:10 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

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Originally Posted by Dudeman007 View Post
Of course we expect perfection. It's a 40K SUV. Iphone is 600 dollars. No room for error when safety is involved.
No safety issues involved, not a single one. Like I said, Apple has the BEST software engineers and designers, and they still have glitches. Every computer software will have glitches, that is why they have upgrades. If you expect perfection with the first release, you are in for a lifetime of disappointment.
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  #14  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:17 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

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Originally Posted by Shannon View Post
No safety issues involved, not a single one. Like I said, Apple has the BEST software engineers and designers, and they still have glitches. Every computer software will have glitches, that is why they have upgrades. If you expect perfection with the first release, you are in for a lifetime of disappointment.
" CONSEQUENCE A loss of ABS and ESC function reduces the driver's ability to control the vehicle. "

That's a huge safety issue.
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  #15  
Old 11-07-2013, 05:55 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

I really don't want to get in the middle of this argument, but I drove cars for many years before ABS or ESC was even invented, in crappy northern snowy environment. Never had a problem. Great systems, and add to safety, but not absolutely necessary to operate a vehicle safely. That being said, Chrysler figured it out and has a fix, but I'm sure folks will find something else to bash Chrysler for after the fix is installed. This forum seems to be the place to do it. Yea for freedom of speech, yours and mine.
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  #16  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:11 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

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Originally Posted by jacko15 View Post
I really don't want to get in the middle of this argument, but I drove cars for many years before ABS or ESC was even invented, in crappy northern snowy environment. Never had a problem.
Me too. Even through snow without 4 wd. I keep forgetting that in today's society many people would rather depend on technology than common sense.

Ya think maybe we are the dinosaurs? I'd still rather depend on me.


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  #17  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:17 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

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Originally Posted by jacko15 View Post
I really don't want to get in the middle of this argument, but I drove cars for many years before ABS or ESC was even invented, in crappy northern snowy environment. Never had a problem. Great systems, and add to safety, but not absolutely necessary to operate a vehicle safely. That being said, Chrysler figured it out and has a fix, but I'm sure folks will find something else to bash Chrysler for after the fix is installed. This forum seems to be the place to do it. Yea for freedom of speech, yours and mine.
I would agree with you about ABS and ESC except for one thing, practically everyone driving today expects ABS to work and few know how to handle their vehicles when it fails. It's like cars being blocked in at a party because no one else knows how to drive a standard except the guy/girl who is passed out on the couch...

I've driven cars both with and without ABS and this is my first car with ESC. While I might be a bit rusty, I do know how to handle a car without ABS. That being said, if ABS is kicking in on Jeep, either you are doing something wrong or it's time to get off of the road... of course, you're likely the only one on it anyway...

.
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  #18  
Old 11-07-2013, 06:26 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

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Originally Posted by David_Hart View Post
I would agree with you about ABS and ESC except for one thing, practically everyone driving today expects ABS to work and few know how to handle their vehicles when it fails. It's like cars being blocked in at a party because no one else knows how to drive a standard except the guy/girl who is passed out on the couch...


.
That's funny!

As for abs, if they failed, most people wouldn't notice the difference. Since they only activate if one or more wheels start to lock up, most people never activate them.

One problem is in snow. When the car starts to slide and you hit the brakes the abs kicks in. What I don't think many folks realize is that the abs disengages at between 3 and 5 mph. At that point you are on your own, and if you keep holding down on the brake you will just continue to slide. That accounts for a lot of little bumps, but is better than a high speed smack.

This is a little dated, so result probably improved;

"Do anti-lock brakes really work?

Anti-lock brakes really do help you stop better. They prevent wheels from locking up and provide the shortest stopping distance on slippery surfaces. But do they really prevent accidents? This is the true measure of the effectiveness of ABS systems.
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has conducted several studies trying to determine if cars equipped with ABS are ­involved in more or fewer fatal accidents. It turns out that in a 1996 study, vehicles equipped with ABS were overall no less likely to be involved in fatal accidents than vehicles without. The study actually stated that although cars with ABS were less likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of other cars, they are more likely to be involved in accidents fatal to the occupants of the ABS car, especially single-vehicle accidents.
There is much speculation about the reason for this. Some people think that drivers of ABS-equipped cars use the ABS incorrectly, either by pumping the brakes or by releasing the brakes when they feel the system pulsing. Some people think that since ABS allows you to steer during a panic stop, more people run off the road and crash.
Some more recent information may indicate that the accident rate for ABS cars is improving, but there is still no evidence to show that ABS improves overall safety."


Source

HowStuffWorks "ABS Questions"
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  #19  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:08 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

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Originally Posted by Dudeman007 View Post
" CONSEQUENCE A loss of ABS and ESC function reduces the driver's ability to control the vehicle. "

That's a huge safety issue.
Its amazing you are still alive being that your parents drove without it. I drove without it, and almost anybody over 40 drove without it. How did we survive...oh the horror...... I agree, they should work, but a great vehicle shouldn't be downgraded to not recommended for computer glitches that can, and have been fixed. The rankings should be on the overall vehicle, not just the computer.
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  #20  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:40 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

There are folks out there that still pump the brakes when going into a skid, they don't understand ABS. Some people think the brake pulsing is caused by a brake malfunction. You can try to make everything idiot proof, but there are idiots out there that can still beat the system. I didn't order my Overland with the Advanced Technology Group, even though my salesman really pushed me to get it. He believes it is a must have safety feature. Personally, I think it's just one more thing to make me less engaged with my driving. With it I won't have to pay as much attention to the world whizzing around me on the highway. I learned to drive in a different world, but I guess there are a lot of people out there who really need the Google self driving vehicle. You can tell by the fatality statistics. If you need to be multitasking while driving, you need all the help you can get. There are only so many slices in the pie of a persons attention.
(And by the way, I used to run with scissors, and never poked my eye out.)
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  #21  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:49 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

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Originally Posted by Shannon View Post
Its amazing you are still alive being that your parents drove without it. I drove without it, and almost anybody over 40 drove without it. How did we survive...oh the horror...... I agree, they should work, but a great vehicle shouldn't be downgraded to not recommended for computer glitches that can, and have been fixed. The rankings should be on the overall vehicle, not just the computer.
Seriously? Chrysler is the one who put the Consequence in the bulletin. Not me. You probably walked to 2 miles to school up hill and up hill back home. You are delusional to think it's okay that electronics can go out in a car and it's not a big deal. In fact you put in the same level as a glitch in an IPhone, really? In 2013 the vehicle is the computer, I wouldn't have purchased the car without the technology in the car.
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  #22  
Old 11-07-2013, 07:51 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

Quote:
Its amazing you are still alive being that your parents drove without it. I drove without it, and almost anybody over 40 drove without it. How did we survive...oh the horror...... I agree, they should work, but a great vehicle shouldn't be downgraded to not recommended for computer glitches that can, and have been fixed. The rankings should be on the overall vehicle, not just the computer.
+1
I can believe I am still alive. Years ago I actually drove an old car that didn't have power brakes, just old fashion 60's master cylinder on the pedal.....I guess I was very lucky not to be crashing left and right.....
My wife's now old car VW Jetta was 5 times in the shop for ESC problems.
I was going to claim it lemon but finally they found bed connector somewhere and fixed it. Every brand can have issues. If you guys think about it why we need the ESC anyway? I love to go to the parking lots in the winter with my WJ (no ESC) to make donuts.....
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  #23  
Old 11-07-2013, 08:04 PM
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Re: Recall 2014 JGC

You can partially shut off the ESC with the push of a button. Also, from the manual:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ESC.JPG (57.7 KB, 9 views)
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Old 11-07-2013, 08:28 PM
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Hey I'm in an emergency situation, I'm gonna jam the brakes and sit back and let the car take it from there.... Ummmm, no.

I don't give a shit what the car is supposed to do, I'm reacting to what the car is doing at that exact moment. Safety measures can only do so much to beat physics, from there it's on the driver to figure it out and that's the problem, too many drivers can't figure it out.

Let me explain something, if you have multiple deaths in a car accident abs, stability, etc was not going to save you.

We'd all be better served if a defensive driving / Performance driving day was part of drivers ed. I somehow make around a race track in a car with no abs and traction control... And survive.
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