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  #61  
Old 04-22-2014, 11:10 PM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

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Originally Posted by AquaForester View Post
I don't think most realize perfection is not going to happen.
I didn't always, or often, agree with my father. But one thing he said often stuck in my head.

"Strive for perfection ... to achieve excellence."


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  #62  
Old 04-23-2014, 12:16 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

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Originally Posted by SnoFire View Post
My question to the OP is if he even asked the dealer to fix any of these issues he states or just said "I'm out!"?


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Doesn't really make any sense does it? He doesn't even list what the build quality problems were. I just find it very hard to believe that someone with these high standards would not have looked at what's on the lot before ordering. After the ordered vehicle comes in then he sees the poor build quality all over the lot and then he goes to other dealers to compare to these other luxury brands. I mean wouldn't someone with these high expectations be doing that before ordering and giving the dealer a 500 dollar deposit? So he ends up giving the dealer 500 dollars for nothing because now they still have a vehicle they can sell. I could be totally wrong, but I think there is a big part of this story that we don't know.
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  #63  
Old 04-23-2014, 12:29 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

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Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
I struggled with this dilemma. I didn't feel as though I should pay a dealership because FCA can't assemble a vehicle correctly.

The dealership's argument is that they had a vehicle which would take longer to sell due to its configuration. In my mind, if the dealership had a concern over the refusal of the vehicle, they should have taken it up with FCA. I assume the dealership's belief is that the vehicle is "good enough" for a Jeep-branded vehicle and will not perform any of the repairs to the vehicle I would have wanted to consider taking delivery.

Ultimately, I paid the $500 to end what could become a messy fight with the dealership.
What configuration would that be that makes it harder to be sold? I mean the summit really doesn't have any options just colors.
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  #64  
Old 04-23-2014, 03:12 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
What configuration would that be that makes it harder to be sold? I mean the summit really doesn't have any options just colors.
As has been stated several times there has to be something missing from this story. I ordered my 2014 Jeep Cherokee last September. The dealer told me as long as I didn't order an odd color combination which would make it difficult for him to resell if I didn't take it he wouldn't require a deposit. Chrysler has pretty much eliminated being able to order odd color combinations anyway so that was not a problem. I realize the Grand Cherokee is built at the Jefferson plant and the Cherokee is built at the Toledo plant but in any case I have had 6 months to go over my Cherokee. Even with my perfectionism and OCD I have not been able to find anything to complain about. I have had this discussion with the service manager at my dealer several times. He believes a lot of the Jeep complainers do not realize what type of vehicle they are buying but bought it because Jeeps are currently "in" and "cool". They think because it cost above $40,000 it is like a Lexus, Mercedes Benz, or BMW when in reality it is a utility vehicle more akin to a truck. You are never going to have a Jeep with the fit, finish, and ride of a foreign luxury car as it isn't designed to be one. If that is what you are looking for then do yourself a favor and look at other vehicles/brands.
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  #65  
Old 04-23-2014, 04:58 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

Why can't we expect the same quality as Benz, built in the same plant, on the same line as m class?

I would have a think about listening too closely to your service manager, could be costly.

It is the op's prerogative whether he accepts or not, more behavior like that might force jeeps hand in the quality stakes.
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  #66  
Old 04-23-2014, 05:43 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

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Originally Posted by neiltb View Post

Why can't we expect the same quality as Benz, built in the same plant, on the same line as m class?
I agree. It's not "Rocket Science" to ensure doors are correctly aligned, and molding / trim / interior pieces are installed properly.

Heck, Chrysler even had to implement a safety recall just because the ground strap connections weren't made tight enough.



When I read these countless threads where customers complain about their GC's shoddy assembly, I can't help but think of that old Michael Keaton movie "Gung Ho"...

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  #67  
Old 04-23-2014, 06:39 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

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Originally Posted by jgc4ever View Post
It's the highest priced non-luxury brand SUV in it's mid-size SUV segment.
My point exactly. How much can/should you expect from a non luxury brand?
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  #68  
Old 04-23-2014, 07:14 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

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Originally Posted by SnoFire View Post
My question to the OP is if he even asked the dealer to fix any of these issues he states or just said "I'm out!"?
Did you read the thread I linked to in my first post?
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  #69  
Old 04-23-2014, 07:44 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

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Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
Did you read the thread I linked to in my first post?

Nope because I don't really see a link (unless the unlined works are a link to something). IMO, if your going to post about this then write what was wrong in the same thread and not make people go to another thread to find your posts.

Edit: Ok, I saw the other 3 threads you linked. Did the dealer fix those misaligned parts and where there other things not listed that were an issue?
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  #70  
Old 04-23-2014, 08:12 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

FWIW, I did see the threads you linked, and perhaps I missed it, but I didn't see any quantification of the issues. I think it is very hard to have a reasonable discussion of these types of issues without quantification.

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  #71  
Old 04-23-2014, 08:46 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

I haven't read through all 6 pages, but I wonder if OP also cruised Ford and GM lots to search for the perfect vehicle. You can easily option an Explorer or Acadia to >$50K as well. Some people are never satisfied.
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  #72  
Old 04-23-2014, 09:18 AM
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Re: Rejected Jeep Grand Cherokee Summit Delivery

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Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
Unacceptable!

Attention to Detail and Quality Control are not trade offs. You seem to be saying that the JGC wasn't designed with tight tolerances. I'm pretty sure it was.
That's the key. We are all making assumptions, but we are not in the loop.

The design, the parts and the assembly all contribute to the end result.

A given part is going to have a specified range of tolerances. From the engineering perspective, a gap that might be caused by one part being at the far range of one tolerance, but still inside that tolerance, but put next to another piece at the opposite, but still in spec piece might be noticeable, but _by definition_, it is still in spec.

We don't know what these specs are however. So we don't know if what we are looking at are the result of out of spec part(s), incorrect assembly, or if it is within the design specifications.

The design will contribute to how easily the parts can be correctly aligned.

To get tighter tolerances, you need (typically) to spend more money. Tighter tolerances on parts and more time spent to ensure they are assembled to a given tolerance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snipe315 View Post
"This Price Range"?!?

The 2014 JGC Summit edition can run over $50,000 or even $60,000 (MSRP)! At what "price range" should a person be able to expect good Quality Control & Attention to Detail?!?

That's a great question. How much will you pay for a functional vehicle that simply has better cosmetics?

As I asserted, the JGC is built to perform reasonably well off road and that implies more than just design, but also different and more expensive components.

If I stated that the Ford Explorer was just as "good" as the JGC, people would be quick to jump all over me.

Don't get me wrong, the JGC is expensive. But IMO it's expensive because of both the mechanicals *and* the new *features* intended to increase it's market penetration, notably all the luxury oriented tidbits.

The Range Rover "Sport" starts at over $63k. I have no idea how the fit and finish is, but we at least know it attempts to maintain off-road capability. The Range Rover proper starts at $84K.

Other than that, it's hard to compare apples to apples since most SUVs don't really attempt to maintain any sort of off-road capability.

All this isn't to say that I don't think we should expect good quality control, good fit and finish.

But it's hard to say what falls into "meets the specs but this customer finds unacceptable", vs "doesn't meet the specs" and what the real frequency where the product does not meet the specs is.

And we should point out, we're talking about (for the most part) trim pieces and panel alignment here. Not "my wheel fell off and I crashed and died". Upcoming recall, excepted. :-)

When we find egregious problems, we should make them fix it or not accept it.

But it's a complex topic, and I can tell you that if my Jeep were $5k more expensive, I probably wouldn't have purchased it, regardless how perfectly aligned the trim was. Likewise, I wouldn't buy a Ford Explorer even it had zuper-duper-lux and perfectly aligned trim AND was $5k cheaper.

As usual, YMMV.

-john
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