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  #49  
Old 10-25-2014, 08:30 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

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Originally Posted by Technosavant View Post
Well, since I'm the one who quoted numbers with actual math, I guess you're calling me clueless. Not sure how that washes, since I actually, you know, RAN THE NUMBERS.
You completely missed the point. "Running the numbers" or "payoff" is just one small aspect of the equation.

I didn't buy a diesel based on "payoff" at the gas pump. There are far more important things to consider. Like say, slinging around a 5,300 lb SUV day to day? That's why diesel guys get heated when people who don't know what they are talking about think "payoff" is the only thing that matters when selecting an engine.

Also, if you think a diesel won't bring higher resale down the road versus a run of the mill V6, you just don't know cars...

The diesel costs more to manufacture because it's more stout and suited for heavier vehicles better. You have to pay to play.

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  #50  
Old 10-25-2014, 08:34 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

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Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
Wow, some really clueless people posting about diesel's in this thread.

V8 Hemi? Sure it may be a little faster stock, but has abysmal fuel mileage. Your half the way to the cost of a diesel upgrade anyway.

V6? Rev the crap out of it in order to keep up with the diesel, and still has far worse gas mileage. Especially on the highway.

There are far more considerations than the layman's "payoff" period. A heavy vehicle like a JGC benefits far more from a torque-y/low RPM diesel and it's associated driving dynamics than a gas engine that has to spin 5,000+ RPM's to even compete. Who goes around high revving their engine constantly when a diesel pulls you along effortlessly at low rpm's sipping fuel in day to day driving?

A diesel engine will also last longer and provide better resale value. You easily makeup the higher initial cost for the diesel engine during resale. Far greater fuel tank range saving you time and money.

A V6 JGC doing a decent pace on the highway actually gets more like 20MPG, closer to 30MPG in the diesel. The V8? Forget about it.

People simply stating "payoff" numbers for one engine versus another are clueless. For the driving dynamics associated with a heavy SUV, diesel is far superior.

Hence why most American's are clueless about diesel, providing it's low associated uptake rate. Although IMO the engine should be offered in all trim levels to satiate the more frugal people who buy the lower end models.
I'm sorry, but I'm going to disagree. We have someone that actually ran the numbers here to show that you're not coming out ahead on cost vs the V6. And the hemi is more than a little faster stock (6.5 0-60 vs 7.8 isn't "a little faster") and BOTH can benefit from tuning and such. The hemi can get into the 5-ish second range.

As to the longevity, if it is so fantastic then why is that the one engine that can't get a lifetime MaxCare warranty?

By the way, I considered the diesel and very quickly wrote it off. The hemi is fun and sure it costs in gas more but the reliability is good, the speed is great and towing with it is fine. I'm not seeing what I'm giving up. If I didn't care as much about performance then the V6 regular would have been the way to go.
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  #51  
Old 10-25-2014, 08:36 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

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Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
You completely missed the point. "Running the numbers" or "payoff" is just one small aspect of the equation.

I didn't buy a diesel based on "payoff" at the gas pump. There are far more important things to consider. Like say, slinging around a 5,300 lb SUV day to day?

Also, if you think a diesel won't bring higher resale down the road versus a run of the mill V6, you just don't know cars...
Seeing as how the diesel costs WAY more than the V-6 at first, sure, it had better bring something on the back end. As to how much, we'll see. Maybe a little bit. Maybe it's even. Maybe it will be way more.

But yes, the bolded part was my point. Buying the Ecodiesel for a financial payoff over the V-6 is pointless. There isn't one... or if there is, it's so far out there's not much point in it. If you bought it for other reasons (low end torque, far improved efficiency over the Hemi while similar capabilities), then that's a good idea.

As I said, there's no financial reason to buy the diesel over the Pentastar. If acceleration is less a deal to a person, then there sure is a financial reason to buy it over the Hemi. It all comes down to a person's priorities and needs.
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  #52  
Old 10-25-2014, 08:36 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

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Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
Most people when they see how often they return to the pump.
I drive around 100 miles a day. My typical driving pattern is to immediately switch it to "sports" and then drive it like I stole it.

It isn't THAT much money at the end of the day, particularly when you're talking about a $50k+ SUV. If I was really short on cash I'd just get some lame, sensible Japanese sedan and be done with it.
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  #53  
Old 10-25-2014, 08:43 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

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Originally Posted by devilsadvocate View Post
I drive around 100 miles a day. My typical driving pattern is to immediately switch it to "sports" and then drive it like I stole it.

It isn't THAT much money at the end of the day, particularly when you're talking about a $50k+ SUV. If I was really short on cash I'd just get some lame, sensible Japanese sedan and be done with it.
While certainly true, I think you would be the minority. I don't think a $50K vehicle is a point where most people go "I don't have to worry about fuel costs"..

Now if you were driving a G63 AMG G-Wagon that costs $145K and get's 10MPG on the highway, that's another story..
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  #54  
Old 10-25-2014, 09:01 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

What is the cost of diesel option in the usa?

In Canada over the hemi its $4995 option however there is a $2000 green levy on the hemi due to fuel economy ratings so the diesel seems a more viable alternative. I tried the v6 and it seems peppy but worried for any towing it would not be strong and eat fuel due to having to reach deep into the pedal.
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  #55  
Old 10-25-2014, 09:02 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

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Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
While certainly true, I think you would be the minority. I don't think a $50K vehicle is a point where most people go "I don't have to worry about fuel costs"..

Now if you were driving a G63 AMG G-Wagon that costs $145K and get's 10MPG on the highway, that's another story..
I mean, I'm hoping that people that paid this much weren't paying their last dime. I could afford the M class AMG (not seeing the appeal of the G wagon) but yes, at that point I'd start worrying about fuel/maintenance costs. That is one reason I chose the sensible path of a well optioned Jeep GC with a large engine that I can drive any way I want. Similarly, if this is someone's last dime, I would hope that they consider something like a Honda Accord or Toyota Prius or whatever rather than trying to swing a GC and count every penny spent on fuel.
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  #56  
Old 10-25-2014, 09:03 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

Everyone is so vested in their decision on what they bought....no sense in comparing the advantages of any options.

To the OP: Sorry nobody could offer any good usable information. We are all idiots according to every other person with an opinion....
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  #57  
Old 10-25-2014, 11:34 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

Pretty pointless argument really. Those who penny pinch buy a diesel those that are prepared to pay buy a v8 pretty simple math really. You dont buy a sports car to look at it!!
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  #58  
Old 10-25-2014, 11:40 PM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

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Originally Posted by Zybane View Post
That's crazy such a low take rate for the diesel. A heavy off-road capable SUV is the perfect candidate for a diesel. American's are just too stupid to realize the huge benefit of diesel.
well I don't think its cuz we are too stupid for it...more like diesel engines of the 80's and 90's gave them a bad name for being rought and noisy and slow. add in the diesel smell and not many people like it.

give it time and I feel the American population will warm up to the newer diesels
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  #59  
Old 10-26-2014, 12:15 AM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

Lotta guessing going on and little hard data, some things I've noticed:
1) Diesel used to cost less than gasoline but the Ultra Low Whatever requirements changed that.
2) You see 20+% Ram 1500 Diesels because it is available in everything including the Black Bumper Tradesman. Suspect there would be a lot more GC Diesels if available in a Laredo
3) My '12 Pentastar gets 17-18 mpg at 65 mph pulling a 3500 lb travel trailer. With the AC on max.

I like diesels but not willing to pay a $8k option + mandatory things I don't want like a sunroof or extra chrome. I prefer subtle. Have others for blatant.
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  #60  
Old 10-26-2014, 03:52 AM
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Re: Sales - v6 vs hemi vs diesel?

I'm a 21 year old college student. The Grand Cherokee was always my dream car (drove a 2006 Jeep Liberty since I was 16). I got my 2014 Laredo (4x4) in August, 2013. I have 16,000 miles on the vehicle, and I have not had a single issue.

The pentastar 3.6 has been a great engine, and it's performance actually surprised me after reading so many reviews talking about how it struggles to move a heavy SUV. Eco Mode is great down south, and Sport Mode is definitely useful on the Long Island Expressway and on NYC streets.

With all of that said, here are a few points I want to make.

-The Laredo (even with the base 4x4) weighs a bit less than the higher trims. So I was curious if a fully loaded Summit would actually feel hindered by the V-6 (especially since many reviews deal with that trim or similar). Perhaps someone might want to address this?

-I am a pretty young guy, and money was definitely a factor when looking at the (purchase price). If the V-8 was an option on the laredo, there is a good chance I would have spent the few extra grand up front.


-I think the Grand Cherokee is one of those rare vehicles that looks beautiful in every trim level "it looks good naked." I am always complimented on my car, and people tend to assume that it is much more expensive than it is (not always a good thing when you are young haha).

-Pretty much, I am in love with the Wk2, and I love seeing all the different variations of them on the roadways. I saw an eco-diesel on the road the other day and actually rolled my window down to try and hear it at a red light (I couldn't). All in all, I love my vehicle, and I have kept it in showroom condition since the day I bought it (and I will do the same for any vehicle I purchase during my lifetime). The second owner should be smiling if I do this right!
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