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  #85  
Old 06-20-2016, 09:11 PM
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Re: Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

It hasn't been verified in this situation, the gauge cluster says the gear its in accurately, its the drivers expectation that they've put the car in park when they actually haven't. I'm able to put my cars with traditional shifters into park and reverse and drive without having to look at the gauge cluster to confirm the gear.[/QUOTE]

Been driving for over 50 years. 3 on the tree, 4 on the floor, column and console mounted automatics, even a 1958 Edsel with push buttons in the middle of the steering wheel, and never had to look to see what gear I was in. Intuitive feel was all that was needed. So having to look at the shifter (dash indicator is hidden by steering wheel) doesn't come naturally. This joy stick shifter is a major step backwards.

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  #86  
Old 06-20-2016, 09:17 PM
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Re: Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Originally Posted by NorthstarSRX View Post

Been driving for over 50 years. 3 on the tree, 4 on the floor, column and console mounted automatics, even a 1958 Edsel with push buttons in the middle of the steering wheel, and never had to look to see what gear I was in. Intuitive feel was all that was needed. So having to look at the shifter (dash indicator is hidden by steering wheel) doesn't come naturally. This joy stick shifter is a major step backwards.
so why did you buy it?
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Old 06-20-2016, 09:26 PM
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Re: Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Originally Posted by GoPlzGo View Post
I agree with your sentiment but FWIW there is, and has been, a definite documented Stop-Sale order in effect for ALL new 14/15 JGC's since th NHTSA imposed it 4/27/16....just because a dealer chose to imperil their dealership does not negate the freeze, it just cements their stupidity. FCA even reminded the dealers in their 6/13/16 recall instructions....
funny timing, today in the mailbox what do I get but a "welcome to the jeep" brand from FCA congratulating me on the purchase of my 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee this month. Even includes a leather key chain

so... if there's a freeze by FCA - not sure why they wouldn't have instead sent a "holy **** are you crazy you dumb bastard you bought a death machine, why not just go jump in a chipper-shredder instead?" letter (but I'd still expect a nice leather key chain)

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  #88  
Old 06-20-2016, 09:28 PM
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Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Originally Posted by Cowpig View Post
so why did you buy it?


Needed a new Jeep. Didn't see it as a problem at the time. Let me ask you this my friend. Do you own one yourself? And if you do - have you had a problem? And if you don't… Then why are you so full of advice? And why are we so lucky to receive it from you? The kid died. It's a known problem. It's not an obvious problem when you buy it, but it's a known problem that many people have apparently had. Have you? I have. Cost me a grand. That's why I posted here. No other reason. In 35 years of driving I had never left the car "in gear" until this one. It's also very easy to knock it into gear or out of gear while driving. Give it a try next time you're going down the road and tell me it's not so.
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  #89  
Old 06-20-2016, 09:37 PM
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Re: Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Originally Posted by mattpeyton View Post
Needed a new Jeep. Didn't see it as a problem at the time. Let me ask you this my friend. Do you own one yourself? And if you do - have you had a problem? And if you don't… Then why are you so full of advice? And why are we so lucky to receive it from you? The kid died. It's a known problem. It's not an obvious problem when you buy it, but it's a known problem that many people have apparently had. Have you?
yes, I bought it and took delivery just this past friday (2015). I bought it after researching this "recall" and the issue and coming to the inescapable conclusion that it is not in fact an issue beyond that FCA sees the lawyers circling

41 out of 1.1 million

one 27 year old who happened to be famous died, undetermined CoD but everyone has jumped on the shifter recall as the murderer.

your logic is missing - if the shifter was 'not intuitive' or otherwise problematic for those not familiar with the way it operates then it should definitely be an "obvious problem when you buy it" as you (buyer) are most decidedly not familiar with it which is why you are test driving the vehicle.

Now, you may have decided you don't like it anymore after purchasing it, but that's called buyer's remorse, not 'dangerous death transmission of death'

once again:
41 out of 1.1 million
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  #90  
Old 06-20-2016, 09:53 PM
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Re: Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Originally Posted by Cowpig View Post
yes, I bought it and took delivery just this past friday (2015). I bought it after researching this "recall" and the issue and coming to the inescapable conclusion that it is not in fact an issue beyond that FCA sees the lawyers circling



41 out of 1.1 million



one 27 year old who happened to be famous died, undetermined CoD but everyone has jumped on the shifter recall as the murderer.



your logic is missing - if the shifter was 'not intuitive' or otherwise problematic for those not familiar with the way it operates then it should definitely be an "obvious problem when you buy it" as you (buyer) are most decidedly not familiar with it which is why you are test driving the vehicle.



Now, you may have decided you don't like it anymore after purchasing it, but that's called buyer's remorse, not 'dangerous death transmission of death'





41 out of 1.1 million


I didn't mention I had buyers remorse. I don't - I actually like the car. I was simply relaying the story from my own life that related to the topic. Because this is a forum. Because sharing information and stories from our life is what people do in forums. I guess it's 42 out of 1.1 million because when I received my recall notice I said "I've done that!" I have the receipt for the new front end grill, bars, and headlight to prove it. And when I read the story about the kid it immediately rung a bell.

Not sure where the "perceived" attitude comes from but you might want to cut down on the coffee? You've gone out of your way to imply that I'm some sort of nini for having the accident. I have a clean license, and drive 15,000 miles a year. And yes I read the manual. My point is, having read the manual in all, it's very easy to knock this thing in and out of gear. Also very easy to miss park. Yes I'm really sure of that… I'm very glad I wasn't in front or behind the car. It's also really hard to see the display on the gearshift knob without cupping your hand around the top of it. And if you've just parked, it's very possible that the large part of the steering wheel will block the display on the dashboard.

Congratulations on your new purchase. With any luck at all you won't have any problems.

Just for the record when I brought the car to my mechanic after having the accident with it, a guy I've known for years who has both raced in NHRA and sanctioned CART events and owns the biggest repair shop in our town, said he thought it was the most dangerous design he'd ever seen.

I am going to retire from this forum-this is the first and last time I posted anything in it. Yeach.

---------- Post added at 02:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:49 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammydavis View Post
Clearly you are a poor driver if you can't figure out how to put a vehicle in Park. Bernie is a joke too.


Difficult childhood? Not get enough love it home? Not enough below the belt? Let me put it this way there pal… GFYS.
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  #91  
Old 06-20-2016, 09:58 PM
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Re: Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Originally Posted by mattpeyton View Post
........Let me ask you this my friend. Do you own one yourself? And if you do - have you had a problem? And if you don't… Then why are you so full of advice? And why are we so lucky to receive it from you? .....t it's a known problem that many people have apparently had. Have you? .....Give it a try next time you're going down the road and tell me it's not so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattpeyton View Post
......Because this is a forum. Because sharing information and stories from our life is what people do in forums. .......
Not sure where the "perceived" attitude comes from but you might want to cut down on the coffee? .....
I am going to retire from this forum-this is the first and last time I posted anything in it. Yeach.
the only attitude was yours, 'friend'

i believe in personal responsibility. If this was a gas tank mounted behind the rear bumper fascia then yeah, that's a design flaw. This design is obvious and absolutely experienced by every single buyer during their test drives. If I were an attorney (1. I wouldn't be) for FCA that'd be argument #1 at trial; did the plaintiff know what they were buying? is it user error that causes any difficulties? Yes and Yes? case closed, bye, thanks for playing

oh, cut down on the coffee? only when I'm dead friend, which since I've bought a 2015 grand cherokee is probably going to be any day now
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  #92  
Old 06-20-2016, 10:20 PM
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Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Originally Posted by Cowpig View Post
the only attitude was yours, 'friend'



i believe in personal responsibility. If this was a gas tank mounted behind the rear bumper fascia then yeah, that's a design flaw. This design is obvious and absolutely experienced by every single buyer during their test drives. If I were an attorney (1. I wouldn't be) for FCA that'd be argument #1 at trial; did the plaintiff know what they were buying? is it user error that causes any difficulties? Yes and Yes? case closed, bye, thanks for playing



oh, cut down on the coffee? only when I'm dead friend, which since I've bought a 2015 grand cherokee is probably going to be any day now


If you picked up any attitude from me other than sharing information then I certainly apologize for that. I don't think the mild fender bender I had when I first bought the car was because I am lacking in "personal responsibility" but I guess that's between me, my mortgage company, and my kids. When jeep offers a solution that will change the interface to this transmission I will certainly take it. I feel terrible for the kid who got killed and I totally and completely understand how it happened because it happened to me just about the same way. My family really loves the jeep and of the nine cars I've had in my life it's probably my favorite one for variety of reasons. I would say every car I've owned has had its good points and it's bad points which I won't bore anyone with here. I hope you enjoy your jeep as much as we enjoy ours and regardless of how personally responsible you are, I hope that one day, when you are a bit distracted for a second, maybe by something happening outside your control or field of responsibility, you don't miss park and your jeep get you home safely. Sincerely. Peace :-)
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  #93  
Old 06-20-2016, 10:30 PM
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Re: Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Originally Posted by Cowpig View Post
well, it is what it is

i find it fascinating that people bought these vehicles, lots of them, presumably after having test driven them. Then there have been what, 41 out of 1.1 million that had a problem with the trans *shifter* resulting in injury or death? For chrissake that's such a tiny percentage, yet people are now bailing on these vehicles as if they were infected with plague and locusts were swarming the occupants.
In previous posts (on other threads) I raised the question how does the accident rate with this shifter compare to other shifters. Is it higher? Significantly higher? Or about the same and the shifter is the easy scapegoat? People hit the accelerator instead of the brake all the time and at first are 100% sure they were pressing the brake and blame it on the car only to later find out they were hitting the accelerator instead. Denial is a pretty powerful thing and blaming this shifter would be easy to do even if it was not the actual problem. The accident rate given the number of vehicles and number of trips doesn't seem high without something to compare it too.
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:42 PM
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Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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In previous posts (on other threads) I raised the question how does the accident rate with this shifter compare to other shifters. Is it higher? Significantly higher? Or about the same and the shifter is the easy scapegoat? People hit the accelerator instead of the brake all the time and at first are 100% sure they were pressing the brake and blame it on the car only to later find out they were hitting the accelerator instead. Denial is a pretty powerful thing and blaming this shifter would be easy to do even if it was not the actual problem. The accident rate given the number of vehicles and number of trips doesn't seem high without something to compare it too.


If were back to actually talking about the problem for a sec I think my problem with the interface, and I spent more than a year or two of my life in interface design positions, is twofold. One is that there is no difference in feel between shifting it into neutral and shifting it into park. In most other cars I've owned there has been a noticeable "clunk" when the car reached park. My wife owned both a Liberty and a Laredo and in both instances the mechanical thunk was helpful. I've driven both of those cars countless times.

Also, as I mentioned in my other post, if your sunroof is open and you are in the bright light of the day, the letters on the shifter itself are virtually unreadable. I'm talking about the grand Cherokee LTD-which has a backlit readout on the shifter itself. Yes there is a duplicate on the dashboard but it's often blocked by one of the two control surfaces of the steering wheel if the steering wheel is turned in as one would do for parking. I reflexively cup my hand around the top of the shifter every time I look at it now before I press the kill switch for the engine.

Obviously under perfect circumstances, with no real world distractions, no children entering or leaving, nothing left behind in the house that you had to run in for in the middle of the night, no cell phone ringing in your pocket, no panhandler approaching your car while your wife is getting out, if none of those things occur, and the light is such that the backlight on the shifter does it's job, you're golden.

Throw any of those things into the mix and it's easy to make a mistake. There's plenty of things that the Jeep does very well that other cars will kill you for. Ever drive an M3 in light snow? Don't..... :-)
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Old 06-20-2016, 10:53 PM
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Re: Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Originally Posted by mattpeyton View Post
If were back to actually talking about the problem for a sec I think my problem with the interface, and I spent more than a year or two of my life in interface design positions, is twofold. One is that there is no difference in feel between shifting it into neutral and shifting it into park. In most other cars I've owned there has been a noticeable "clunk" when the car reached park. My wife owned both a Liberty and a Laredo and in both instances the mechanical thunk was helpful. I've driven both of those cars countless times.

Also, as I mentioned in my other post, if your sunroof is open and you are in the bright light of the day, the letters on the shifter itself are virtually unreadable. I'm talking about the grand Cherokee LTD-which has a backlit readout on the shifter itself. Yes there is a duplicate on the dashboard but it's often blocked by one of the two control surfaces of the steering wheel if the steering wheel is turned in as one would do for parking. I reflexively cup my hand around the top of the shifter every time I look at it now before I press the kill switch for the engine.

Obviously under perfect circumstances, with no real world distractions, no children entering or leaving, nothing left behind in the house that you had to run in for in the middle of the night, no cell phone ringing in your pocket, no panhandler approaching your car while your wife is getting out, if none of those things occur, and the light is such that the backlight on the shifter does it's job, you're golden.

Throw any of those things into the mix and it's easy to make a mistake. There's plenty of things that the Jeep does very well that other cars will kill you for. Ever drive an M3 in light snow? Don't..... :-)
Maybe the design "mistake" is making this shifter too much like a traditional shifter so muscle memory from old shifters is confused. If the shifter was made more different even with the same detents people wouldn't have had as much confusion. I personally haven't had a problem with it and hit park every time and three point turns without looking. But if a door open triggers huge alerts or possibly a brake or park engagement to improve it, so be it.
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Old 06-20-2016, 11:05 PM
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Shifter confusion --- not just GC 14/15???

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Maybe the design "mistake" is making this shifter too much like a traditional shifter so muscle memory from old shifters is confused. If the shifter was made more different even with the same detents people wouldn't have had as much confusion. I personally haven't had a problem with it and hit park every time and three point turns without looking. But if a door open triggers huge alerts or possibly a brake or park engagement to improve it, so be it.


If I was wiring in a solution… Off the top of my head I would make an audible "ping" sound when the shifter hits park. There is an audible seatbelt alarm, an door open alarm sound, give me a little positive sound to let me know the car successfully in park. Also on the subject to safety, it's extremely easy to knock the car out of drive without touching the side button on the shifter head while driving. I have no idea why this is the case, but giving the shifter a little knock can put the car in neutral while it's on the highway. I don't suggest anyone try this but it's obviously not a big plus. Needs to be addressed. Overall, I would take the shifting system off to Laredo but with an eight speed electronically controlled transmission this sophisticated… I don't think that's a possibility. With the death of this actor, who undoubtedly got out of his car in the middle of the night to open his front gate, I would imagine Chrysler will offer a solution pretty darn soon. I like those movies-what a tragedy.
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