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  #37  
Old 06-15-2015, 12:38 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

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Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
I don't understand why they want to merg with GM so badly. GM has all those things going on with the ignition recall from the cobalts to killing off hummer, Pontiac and Saturn. And they make crap cars. Unless Chrysler is desperate to learn how to build a full size SUV.. Which I think is a little late for that. Haha
I do like my jeep, but the fanboy is strong in this post ^^

GM makes excellent cars; the new vette, camaro, cadillac ats / cts, buick regal, chevy impala, the canyon / colorado, full size trucks etc etc. List can go on and on. Yes, they can also build total crap. But don't be a zealot, recognize that a company like GM (and anyother company, FCA included) can build both outstanding products and crap products.

But I do agree that a FCA / GM merge would be horrible. They don't need anything from eachother and far too many products overlap in the same market.

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  #38  
Old 06-15-2015, 12:48 PM
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Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
I do like my jeep, but the fanboy is strong in this post ^^

But I do agree that a FCA / GM merge would be horrible.

Is this a joke? You're going to call me a fanboy and then agree with me? Hah ok... Fwiw I have a 2014 Jeep, 2014 Lexus and a 2015 Chevy in my driveway. I only speak based on my experience. I think Chrysler builds crap cars too. I guess they could merge and build one super awesome rental car.
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  #39  
Old 06-15-2015, 01:27 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

I like Jeep too but some of the stuff posted on here is just silly. I can understand FCA trying to merge the company before the next downturn. GM is clearly the stronger company and anyone that doesn't agree with that is just fooling themselves in my opinion. While Jeep and Ram have been doing well FCA is one of the if not the least profitable auto company. People like to point to the sales which is good, but what matters is the profit. As far as GM building crap cars as some have said the only thing I can say is look ANY of the quality surveys.
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  #40  
Old 06-15-2015, 01:40 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

It is starting to look more and more like FCA is a house of cards and that Sergio. likely at the direction of the Agnelli family, is trying to sell out before a collapse. As can be seen by the repeated delays in product launches FCA does not have the resources to develop the products necessary for success. A lot of Chyslers products have very good bones due to Mercedes plaform/engineering sharing and Fiat upgraded interiors to make the products competitive. It is now coming time to re-engineer all those products and Sergio's pushing of a merger tells everyone that FCA does not have the engineering/financial resources to develop competitive products for Chrysler. The Fiat side is even worse, their products are completely uncompetitive with VW/GM/Ford with no improvement in sight.
Things will only get worse when US fuel economy rules tighten as FCA will have to design multiple new powertrains including hybrids or they will have to go buy them from other companies increasing their cost basis.
There is nothing besides the Jeep brand for GM to gain by buying FCA, especially considering that the highly unionized workforce/government meddling in Italy makes it impossible to do what is necessary at the Fiat side of the house. If GM wished to they could resurrect the hummer brand and make vehicles competing with Jeep at much less risk of bringing the whole company down.
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  #41  
Old 06-15-2015, 01:46 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

malba2366, you're a genius!

Any idiot can see that the Agnelli family wants out of the automotive business.

They haven't really made any real cash from it these days. It's more of a "service" industry these days, it's no longer a center of major profits.
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  #42  
Old 06-15-2015, 03:10 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

@Marlon There is plenty of money to be made building cars...Look at VW, Toyota and even Ford. The problem is that FCA can not make money with the 10 ton anchor called Fiat weighing it down...they can not get rid of Fiat and they can not make the changes needed to make it competitive due to italian government meddling. Most every other car company in the world would not be foolish enough to take on a merger involving Fiat, except maybe PSA Peugeot Citroen which has many of the same problems as Fiat. The best possible outcome for the Agnelli family would be to sell of Ferrari, Chrysler (Buyer would probably only want Jeep and let the rest of the lineup wind down slowly) and Alfa Romeo and then try to ditch Fiat through an IPO.
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  #43  
Old 06-15-2015, 04:11 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

I would guess that its many things. One thing is to meet the future fuel economy standards is going to take a very large investment. It would probably be wise to merge with a company that is already developing those technologies to meet the standards. The problem as I see it is these other companies don't need FCA. FCA needs them so in my opinion that's why they have got the responses they have. All these delays is one thing that really concerns me because to be successful in the auto business you really need to stay out front and keep your products fresh. So hopefully these delays don't impact that.
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  #44  
Old 06-15-2015, 05:38 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

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Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
Is this a joke? You're going to call me a fanboy and then agree with me? Hah ok... Fwiw I have a 2014 Jeep, 2014 Lexus and a 2015 Chevy in my driveway. I only speak based on my experience. I think Chrysler builds crap cars too. I guess they could merge and build one super awesome rental car.
I didn't agree with your assesment that GM builds crap; and then leaving it at that. It's only a quarter of the story, since GM builds a ton of great stuff.

Oh, and they're doing quite well in China.

GM China Sales January - May 2015 | GM Authority
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  #45  
Old 06-15-2015, 06:09 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
I didn't agree with your assesment that GM builds crap; and then leaving it at that. It's only a quarter of the story, since GM builds a ton of great stuff.

Oh, and they're doing quite well in China.

GM China Sales January - May 2015 | GM Authority
I'm just not a fan of GM. Yeah I did sound like a hater but nearly every time I have owned a GM its been a complete pos.
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  #46  
Old 06-15-2015, 06:27 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

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I'm just not a fan of GM. Yeah I did sound like a hater but nearly every time I have owned a GM its been a complete pos.
And that's fine, we all look for different things in cars. My 2004 pontiac had an amazing drive train; Just a 3.8 L with a 4 speed auto, but shifts were quick, decisive, and never lazy / jerky or anything like that. It always knew the best gear to be in. Decent mileage too, I maxed it out at 31.9 mpg on a long-distance trip.

In comparison, my laredo just lugs it's sorry ass everywhere it goes. "Sport" Utility, hah. I've accepted this aspect of my jeep, simply because I can't afford to fix it (trade it in for a 2014 v6 or a 2011+ hemi)

But, when comparing interior build quality and materials, looks, general usefullness etc., I'll take the Jeep no questions asked. Especially interior, no question there my pontiac was rental grade.

Both companies have made serious strides since 2008 and bankruptcy. Ford too.
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  #47  
Old 06-15-2015, 07:06 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

^^I can agree with that. And thinking back, my 08 Tahoe was the best vehicle I've ever had probably. And like you said, the 4 speed. We must just like the way GM can program a 4 speed. The way they shift... It was a fun SUV honestly.
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  #48  
Old 06-15-2015, 09:05 PM
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Re: Should General Motors Rescue Fiat a Second Time?

Why all the hate on GM? Their new full size SUVS are amazing...all three models blow away the competition! The new Corvette is also an amazing piece for the price. A lot of the new Cadillac models (CTS/ATS) are class leading in handling/performance...the only thing holding them is that the years of ignoring the brand and suddenly trying to price at the same level as the Germans.
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