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  #49  
Old 06-01-2012, 09:00 AM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Twice I got loaners from my Ford dealer servicing my $42k 07 Expedition with the Eddie Bauer package, 20s, air suspension, heated and cooled leather seats, satellite radio and a handful of other options. I had the extended warranty so they paid for the rentals.

The first time "we pick u up" showed up with a Kia. Except for the automatic it looked like a base model rental that you'd get in some Caribbean country. I was kinda shocked, actually, and asked the guy if he had anything bigger. He told me that I could have an Exploder but I'd have to pay X dollars more. X didn't bother me but the time to exchange the vehicle did, and I was just driving up the road to my office and back.

I didn't realize those things spun at 3000 rpm just to do 65 down a level highway. Honest to God it felt like I was doing 95.

So the second and last time I told the maintenance adviser that I hoped that he wasn't going to put me in another Kia. The truck had 80k miles on it then and I was a frequent customer, having purchased at least six cars there so he sized up the situation very smartly and put me in a brand new, fully loaded 2012 Exploder. I had it overnight and it was basically an extended test drive.
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  #50  
Old 06-01-2012, 10:34 AM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

You asked for it, and you were a good customer and they helped you out.

I bet if the OP called the dealer and asked for something better because its an extended time period he would get it.
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  #51  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:00 PM
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The bottom lines is this-if you sell a vehicle that retails for 50, 60, 70k or more then you as a manufacturer need to be able to retain that customer base for future sales. It's just plain bad salesmanship to put a guy driving a luxury suv in a compact when he needs service. As a consumer, how you treat me after the sale is as big of a deal to me as the quality of the vehicle and how you treated me during the sales process. if you fail miserably in any one of those three areas you won't see my money ever again.

When you as a company, practice cheapness with your biggest spending customer you send them a clear message. Go buy a BMW instead of our vehicle when the time comes to purchase another toy.

So, strap on your blinders, plow forward and alienate you customer base so they shop elsewhere. Congrats morons. Ridiculous.

But somehow people here think its cool to do it. My god man if you ever open a dealership please let me know so I go to the other end of the state.


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  #52  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:20 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubwarren View Post
The bottom lines is this-if you sell a vehicle that retails for 50, 60, 70k or more then you as a manufacturer need to be able to retain that customer base for future sales. It's just plain bad salesmanship to put a guy driving a luxury suv in a compact when he needs service. As a consumer, how you treat me after the sale is as big of a deal to me as the quality of the vehicle and how you treated me during the sales process. if you fail miserably in any one of those three areas you won't see my money ever again.
If thats how you feel, you will always be disappointed by how you are treated at a Jeep dealer (which remember is almost always also at least a Dodge dealer), a Ford dealer, a Toyota dealer, etc. It is not a premium experience, the facilities aren't luxurious, the staff isn't trained in customer service the way they are at luxury car dealerships, and the labor rates are MUCH less. Remember, the manufacturer doesn't own the dealer. The dealer needs to be able to offer this quality service you want, and pay for it out of what they take in. Jeep doesn't give them money to give you a nice loaner, they have to make enough money off of the service you're paying for to pay for the nice loaner.

If you want that type of care because you bought an "expensive" Jeep (kind of like buying the most expensive thing on the menu at Applebees, the server is still 18 and covered in pimples. Its not Mortons, you'll get better service if you go to Mortons and order the cheapest thing) then you have to submit to higher prices for service than other people pay at the same dealership.

My Lexus dealer is leather and wood lined, they have high end loaners (which you get nicer ones if you have a more expensive Lexus), free coffee, sodas, drinks, a movie theatre, a putting green, a golf driving simulator, massages, etc...but the labor rate is $130 an hour!. They can afford the debt service on a bunch of $40k+ cars to let their customers use when they're paying $250 for an oil change. The Jeep dealer charges $80 an hour and $20 for an oil change. Not so much.

Would you be okay paying more per hour for service than the person servicing a Patriot or Dodge Stratus at the same dealer? Because the sales department made $500 more off of you when you bought your car doesn't mean anything to the service department.

Seriously...you should go buy a Mercedes, BMW, or Lexus. Those dealers have the service you want. Jeep doesn't. This is why Hyundai is never going to be a real luxury car, and neither will Jeep. You can buy the top of the line Seiko watch...but its still just a Seiko watch you can buy at Macy's.

Quote:
My god man if you ever open a dealership please let me know so I go to the other end of the state.
I run a business with incredible customer service. I would never open a dealership because my desire to provide that service would put me out of business.
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  #53  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:28 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
You asked for it, and you were a good customer and they helped you out.

I bet if the OP called the dealer and asked for something better because its an extended time period he would get it.
They probably would if they could. The problem is that the Chrysler brands are competing in the high volume, low profit sales markets. A local Mercedes dealer has his loaners driving around with white vinyl stickers on the rear windows saying "[name of business] courtesy car". It's excellent advertising, IMO. Apparently this technique doesn't pay out in low dollar brands, and I suspect because the buyers are more concerned about low price than brand loyalty.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:32 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Absolutely, its just a very different thing.

Take a $50,000 Jeep, and a $50,000 Lexus.

Both cost the same, but from a service perspective you can't expect Chrysler, who is also serving people who own a $15,000 Dodge and need an oil change to be $10 to provide the same amenities to customers as Lexus...who doesn't sell anything below $35,000 and has customers who don't even think about or care what service costs. The clientele is totally different.

Its always going to be a compromise on dealer experience when you choose to buy the top end of a mainstream brand vs the low end of a luxury brand. The only alternative for Jeep is to break Jeep off from their other cousin brands, have their own dealer network, start offering luxury amenities and charging for them. And...guess what? That $50,000 Jeep will be $70,000 or they'll go out of business. With the Jeep you basically get a Land Rover quality vehicle for a 4Runner Price. How do you think they do that?

To use the store Analogy. Nordstrom and Macy's both sell a $600 suit. Its a very similar Hart Shaffner & Marx suit. Nice, but not incredible, you'll probably pay $100-$150 more for the same suit at Nordstrom. Its the best suit Macy's sells, and the entry level suit at Nordstrom. Your argument dubwarren is that Macy's should treat you the way Nordstrom does, because you paid for a suit what they charge for a suit. Well, Nordstrom sells $2,500 suits too, as well as $10,000 Louis Vutton purses, and those higher profits allow them to offer greater quality people, surroundings, and service than Macy's, who also sells $200 suits, and way more of those than the $600 suit. Its just a reality of business.
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  #55  
Old 06-01-2012, 12:39 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

That's probably the reason why Ford always kept their Lincoln division in separate dealerships (although they did combine them with Mercury), and of course Toyota does the same thing with Lexus, and Nissan with Infiniti.

My local Ford dealer is now a Ford-Lincoln dealer and it will be interesting to see how they handle that. My wife has always driven Fords and is at the point in her life where she wants to step up a bit, but when we shopped at that dealer for a Lincoln neither one of use were impressed. Its hard to justify spending an additional $20k when the same car minus lots of trim and options is sitting right next to it.
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Old 06-01-2012, 12:48 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Yep, exactly.

I've seen quite a few Lincoln dealers merging with Ford dealers in my area. I think it has to do with the fact that the Lincoln division is doing so poorly.

If you look at Hyundai as a model, they are indeed selling Genesis and Equus sedans for $35-$65k. They decided not to create a new division and dealer network when they decided to get into luxury cars. For the Genesis people, they basically get screwed, but for the Equus people they have devised a way to keep them from ever entering the dealership by bringing the dealer to them, they come to your home or work and present the vehicle for a test drive, do the paperwork, etc. And pick it up and drop it off for all service and leave a Genesis loaner. BUT...they charge Equus owners more for service.

It remains to be seen how successful it will ultimately be. Its cheaper for the company for sure, and with the economy theres a market there that wants a premium car that doesn't advertise their success, but I think ultimately it will fail because of the affluent American public's need for validation and flattery. I know even me, and I don't consider myself a snob, I couldn't bring myself to trade my Lexus in and spend $45,000 for a Hyundai...no matter if it was a better car (it is).
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  #57  
Old 06-01-2012, 05:17 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yadkin View Post
That's probably the reason why Ford always kept their Lincoln division in separate dealerships (although they did combine them with Mercury), and of course Toyota does the same thing with Lexus, and Nissan with Infiniti.

My local Ford dealer is now a Ford-Lincoln dealer and it will be interesting to see how they handle that. My wife has always driven Fords and is at the point in her life where she wants to step up a bit, but when we shopped at that dealer for a Lincoln neither one of use were impressed. Its hard to justify spending an additional $20k when the same car minus lots of trim and options is sitting right next to it.
If you want to see an example of how to do it correctly, look at Hyundai. THey sell cars under $15k up through $70k Equus that are every bit as nice as the MB S-Class. You would think that following the logic of some people on here, that $70k Equus owner should be stuck in a base model Accent loaner because some people bought those.

That's not the case, when you own a Equus (or I believe Genesis), the dealer will come pick your car up, and give you another Equus or Genesis for a loaner. They give you the white glove service, because you picked them to spend your large chunk of money on.

The reality is, if you LET the dealer step on you, they will. If you tell them "um, yeah, I need/deserve something better than this loaner", you can get it. With all the other companies tyring to move upmarket making the right choices, if Jeep chooses to ignore them it'd be repeating the same mistakes of the past.

Somehow I don't think that's what Marchionne has in mind.
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Old 06-01-2012, 06:20 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

You can't assume ever dealer/vendor will act in the same rational manner you outlined...although I certainly agree they should.

This week, I transferred my title back to Chrysler and cashed an extremely fair check for the buyout. I truly am amazed at how little time they put into trying to fix my car and the almost nonexistent pitch to keep me as a customer. Neither my dealer or corporate really seemed to care about that...so I will be taking my money elsewhere.... not good for their bottom line, not good for future business...it really doesn't make sense.

I guess I need to change my signature some time....
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  #59  
Old 06-01-2012, 09:48 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
If you want to see an example of how to do it correctly, look at Hyundai. THey sell cars under $15k up through $70k Equus that are every bit as nice as the MB S-Class. You would think that following the logic of some people on here, that $70k Equus owner should be stuck in a base model Accent loaner because some people bought those.
You totally ignored what I said. They don't put Equus owners in Accents, they have Genesis loaners they give them. BUT...Equus service is more expensive than service on other Hyundai models.

So like I said, are you guys who are worried about this willing to pay more for service to get the perks you want? I've had the perks, they're nice, but I take my Lexus to my no-perks independent one garage stall mechanic instead of the dealer and ride the metro to work, because its half the cost. The Lexus dealer would come get mine and do all that too...but you pay for that in the cost of the service. No different with the Equus.

Quote:
That's not the case, when you own a Equus (or I believe Genesis), the dealer will come pick your car up, and give you another Equus or Genesis for a loaner. They give you the white glove service, because you picked them to spend your large chunk of money on.
They only do this with the Equus, not the Genesis. Like I said, they don't do that out of the goodness of their hearts...they charge a different service rate for Equus owners.

Jeep charges the same rates for a $50,000 Overland Summit they charge for a $15,000 Dodge Dart...and you get the same service.

People are so entitled, sheesh
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Old 06-01-2012, 11:38 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
You totally ignored what I said. They don't put Equus owners in Accents, they have Genesis loaners they give them. BUT...Equus service is more expensive than service on other Hyundai models.

So like I said, are you guys who are worried about this willing to pay more for service to get the perks you want? I've had the perks, they're nice, but I take my Lexus to my no-perks independent one garage stall mechanic instead of the dealer and ride the metro to work, because its half the cost. The Lexus dealer would come get mine and do all that too...but you pay for that in the cost of the service. No different with the Equus.



They only do this with the Equus, not the Genesis. Like I said, they don't do that out of the goodness of their hearts...they charge a different service rate for Equus owners.

Jeep charges the same rates for a $50,000 Overland Summit they charge for a $15,000 Dodge Dart...and you get the same service.

People are so entitled, sheesh
Under warranty, I should be treated better for buying the $50k vehicle than the $15k vehicle.

Out of warranty would I be willing to pay higher rates? Maybe, it would depend on the job to be done and the dealer (and the quality of work/service). But under warranty, I simply think it's absurd to treat the buyers of your flagship vehicle the same as the buyers of your cheapest trash on the lot.

I think you're focusing on the wrong aspect of this though. You're concerning yourself with when you bring the car in for routine service, and thus are paying for it yourself. As you've mentioned, I very likely would either DIY the service, or take it somewhere less expensive if it was just a quick service.

However, that isn't the issue at hand. The issue at hand is when your car is in for WARRANTY, because the product that they built is not functioning correctly, and thus the cost is on them. In this situation, it's unacceptable to ask me to HUGELY downgrade my vehicle, because there was a defect in the vehicle that they built. I'm paying for a certain quality of vehicle, and if because of a defect that vehicle is taken out of commission, it's only logical and fair for the dealership to provide a vehicle that is comparable to what I own and/or acceptable to my standards.

And it's not like they'd have to have a fleet of loaded out Summits to do this. I don't think many people would be THAT upset about a nicely equipped Laredo X or Limited, or even a loaded Compass Limited or Liberty Limited. But when my truck has Nappa leather and a pano roof, I better at least be getting some lower quality leather seats and a normal moonroof. And again, it's not like they're losing a ton of money to do this, they slap a few stickers on the cars, run them around for a few months, then sell them as a demo car or something for a couple grand off at most. It's not like they're eating the entire cost of these vehicles.

There's a LOT of competition out there, and other manufacturers have taken heed to the fact that higher end customers will step down into their brands if they treat them right and build them great vehicles.

FWIW, the Hyundai dealer back home gave out nicely equipped Santa Fes, Tucsons, Sonatas, and Genesis to their customers for loaners. If you had one of those, that was what they would offer you at first. The Hyundai dealer here has Santa Fes and Sonatas, both nicely equipped.

And lastly, there's something to be said for having pride in the top of the line products and people wanting to step up into them. A friend of mine had an old Integra that was in the Acura dealer for some time (accident related) and they gave him a nicely equipped TSX for a loaner. He was blown away by how nice it was, an by how much better it was than his old car. He told his parents about it and how nice it was, and when they were shopping for their next car they remembered how he said that the dealer gave him this great loaner and how nice it was, and they decided to check out the MDX (which they had not planned to). They ended up LOVING the MDX and bought one. A few years later, my buddy had started making better money, and was in the position to get a new car. His first and only stop was Acura, where he picked up a brand new TSX because the loaner he had he loved so much.

If you show people how much nicer your good stuff is, they're more likely to want to upgrade. They're also more likely to tell people, and those people are more likely to want to buy from you. It's never a smart decision to take your best and highest end customers and treat them like trash.

At the end of the day, a LOT of WK2 owners (especially higher end WK2s) came from other brands, and were comparing the WK2 to more expensive/prestigious models. I was comparing it to the LR4, GX460, X5, ML, Touareg, and RX350 - I felt that the Jeep flat out bested them. Jeep should capitalize on this by realizing that the top end of its client base is changing, and that they expect better. If they don't adapt, they will undo all the hard work they've put in to get higher end clients and instead lose them back to the higher end brands and they'll be even more firmly rooted in them.
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