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  #61  
Old 06-02-2012, 12:31 AM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
A friend of mine had an old Integra that was in the Acura dealer for some time (accident related) and they gave him a nicely equipped TSX for a loaner. He was blown away by how nice it was, an by how much better it was than his old car.
Doesn't surprise me, Acura is again...a premium brand. I've never been to a Jeep dealer that even HAS loaner cars at all. When mine was in they gave me a Compass demo as a courtesy, it wasn't a loaner car.

Thats what you don't realize though, dealers are independent businesses. They care about advancing the brand, but only to a point. When your labor rate is $80 an hour...you just can't afford to offer perks like that. They're not going to loose money on warranty work just to make you happy with the Jeep brand. Warranty work gets billed out at a labor rate too, its not the retail rate...but I promise you its a LOT more from Lexus than from Chrysler, and premium car makes give dealers loaner subsidies, interest free loans on inventory for loaners, etc. Mainstream brands like the Chrysler don't do that...making it even more difficult for the dealers to be able to do what you want them to do.

Its fine to want or expect something, but you have to understand the economic realities you're dealing with. You admit yourself you would not pay for dealer service...that itself is going to keep them from being able to offer perks like nice loaner vehicles. They have to keep the prices low to get people to come for service. There are enough people with luxury vehicles that don't care what the service costs that they can charge more and offer more. Its simple economics.

Quote:
At the end of the day, a LOT of WK2 owners (especially higher end WK2s) came from other brands, and were comparing the WK2 to more expensive/prestigious models. I was comparing it to the LR4, GX460, X5, ML, Touareg, and RX350 - I felt that the Jeep flat out bested them.
Thats great, I was in the same position but the dealer experience will always be a tradeoff when you step from a luxury brand to a mainstream brand, no matter what the vehicle from the mainstream brand costs. The entire brand's mission statement and operational goals are just completely different.

Remember, Jeep is not in control over the dealer's practices. They are independent businesses.
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  #62  
Old 06-02-2012, 08:23 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Remember, Jeep is not in control over the dealer's practices. They are independent businesses.
That's true to a point. Chrysler CAN require them to do certain things. They can require them to have certain quality of loaners for certain customers. They can require them to have modern facilities. They can require them to follow guidelines that Chrysler sets forth, and if they don't they lose their franchise and money for incentives.

And that's the route they need to take. Upgrade your customer experience, or face the possibility of losing your franchise to someone who will treat your customers right.
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  #63  
Old 06-02-2012, 10:04 PM
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  #64  
Old 06-02-2012, 10:23 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

You are assuming that the problems are all on the dealers side...my recent experience had the dealer and corporate pointing fingers and each other on a variety of issues that ultimately let to me getting out of my vehicle. Its hard for me to determine where the fault lies....

In a way, perhaps Chrysler is a bit of a victim of its own recent success. They are building very popular vehicles that challenge some luxury vendors. Perhaps their policies and infrastructure are lagging a bit behind their compelling new offerings
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  #65  
Old 06-03-2012, 12:04 AM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
That's true to a point. Chrysler CAN require them to do certain things. They can require them to have certain quality of loaners for certain customers. They can require them to have modern facilities. They can require them to follow guidelines that Chrysler sets forth, and if they don't they lose their franchise and money for incentives.

And that's the route they need to take. Upgrade your customer experience, or face the possibility of losing your franchise to someone who will treat your customers right.
Its not that simple. I consulted with car dealers for years, there are HUGE struggles between the dealer associations and the manufacturers, especially for American cars and they have a lot of legal precedents where the dealers have sued the manufacturers for trying to put undue pressure on the dealers to conform a certain way. Carmakers like Chrysler have a hard time keeping good franchises with the brand because profit margins are so slim, etc. Stripping a dealer of their franchise is next to impossible anyways.

I don't even really disagree with what you're saying, I'm just saying this is a WHOLE lot more complicated than you think it is. People aren't lining up to sell Chryslers, people aren't lining up to open dealership franchises at all...in fact the number of dealers across all brands nationwide is SHRINKING.
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  #66  
Old 06-03-2012, 10:29 AM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
Its not that simple. I consulted with car dealers for years, there are HUGE struggles between the dealer associations and the manufacturers, especially for American cars and they have a lot of legal precedents where the dealers have sued the manufacturers for trying to put undue pressure on the dealers to conform a certain way. Carmakers like Chrysler have a hard time keeping good franchises with the brand because profit margins are so slim, etc. Stripping a dealer of their franchise is next to impossible anyways.

I don't even really disagree with what you're saying, I'm just saying this is a WHOLE lot more complicated than you think it is. People aren't lining up to sell Chryslers, people aren't lining up to open dealership franchises at all...in fact the number of dealers across all brands nationwide is SHRINKING.
In fairness, that's because dealers are consolidating and many dealers have lost their franchises.

And there's already a precedent set for revoking licenses for poor customer satisfaction scores. Something like this could be as easy as adding a question like "How satisfied with the quality of your loaner car were you?" or "Would you say that your loaner vehicle was of similar or better quality to your personal vehicle?". Make that question a large part of their customer satisfaction score, and watch your customers get better loaner vehicles.

I guess it depends on the location, the CJD dealers back home were large, with very nice facilities and excellent loaners and service. The Jeep dealer up here in NC is best described as a shack with some cars out front of it. When I went to their lot to look at GCs they only had lower end models, and a 2WD Limited. They had a single Durango Crew. They said they weren't going to be getting in any R/T or Citadel Durangos or Overland GCs because "they were too much money".

Contrast that with the VW dealer down the road 5 miles. They practically begged me to special order a loaded TDI Touareg, with no deposit, no requirement of me to buy it, nothing. Just customize a Touareg TDI Executive model at $58k+ so they could get one on the lot, they assured me if I didn't want to buy it when it came in they'd sell it within the week.
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  #67  
Old 06-03-2012, 12:32 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
In fairness, that's because dealers are consolidating and many dealers have lost their franchises.
Why do you think dealers are consolidating? Because business is poor, and they are consolidating to reduce costs. A lot of domestic dealerships have lost their franchises...again...because business is poor, and the manufacturers they franchise from have gone bankrupt, been aquired by trimmer foreign companies (Fiat), and because the manufacturers have sought to reduce their dealer networks which were so large they were hurting vehicle sales prices because of competition. Its not because dealers are "poor quality".

Quote:
I guess it depends on the location, the CJD dealers back home were large, with very nice facilities and excellent loaners and service. The Jeep dealer up here in NC is best described as a shack with some cars out front of it. When I went to their lot to look at GCs they only had lower end models, and a 2WD Limited. They had a single Durango Crew. They said they weren't going to be getting in any R/T or Citadel Durangos or Overland GCs because "they were too much money".
Of course it depends on the location, as it does with any business. It takes profit to reinvest into better facilities. We have a couple very nice CJD dealers here, and some a little "shackish" when you get out of town a little bit. But, none of the dealers are as nice as a luxury car dealer, which you wouldn't expect them to be.

You can't fault a business for stocking merchandise they can sell, and not stocking merchandise that is priced out of their consumer's range.

Quote:
Contrast that with the VW dealer down the road 5 miles. They practically begged me to special order a loaded TDI Touareg, with no deposit, no requirement of me to buy it, nothing. Just customize a Touareg TDI Executive model at $58k+ so they could get one on the lot, they assured me if I didn't want to buy it when it came in they'd sell it within the week.
I bet they do a lot more business than the Jeep dealer. VW service is also quite expensive, and they make more profit per unit on the sales end because they don't have to discount the vehicles down to nothing to sell them like Chrysler does. The dealership is probably newer, with the CJD dealer being pretty old.

As for the stuff about franchises, no offense but you really don't know what you're talking about here. I spent years consulting with dealerships, I have a lot of hands on experience with how they work and the realities of their bottom lines. Specifically what I did was train dealer personnel to retain customers, convert sales business to service, and design retention programs and strategies. I can tell you, as a fact, that it is next to impossible for a manufacturer to revoke a dealer's franchise. It has to be something REALLY bad (like willful fraud) for the manufacturer to even consider it because of the legal ramifications.

On top of that, the manufacturer would have to replace the franchise in a specific location which is INCREDIBLY expensive because another dealer facility will have to be built, etc.

In short...its just not going to happen.

There are some small consequences for bad quality surveys, but they send those on the sales end, not the service end.

Quote:
Something like this could be as easy as adding a question like "How satisfied with the quality of your loaner car were you?" or "Would you say that your loaner vehicle was of similar or better quality to your personal vehicle?".
But see, they aren't even required to have loaners in the first place. Even luxury car dealers are only required to provide a loaner for warranty work taking over 24 hours to complete. Most dealers have policies that are less strict than that (for instance my Lexus dealer will give you a loaner for any reason), but no manufacturer has a requirement that a customer will get a vehicle of equal or greater value than theirs, even Mercedes, Lexus, etc. You get the bottom line vehicle they make for the most part, even if you bring in a $100k S Class.

Any ways, really whats the BFD? You have the thing typically for a day at the most. I can drive anything for a day.
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  #68  
Old 06-03-2012, 12:50 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

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Originally Posted by SW03ES View Post
I bet they do a lot more business than the Jeep dealer. VW service is also quite expensive, and they make more profit per unit on the sales end because they don't have to discount the vehicles down to nothing to sell them like Chrysler does.
Surprisingly enough, no. The VW dealer here in town is TINY. It's literally under 3000 sqft. They had 2 or 3 Touaregs on their lot, but none were diesels or higher end models. Their facility is nice, clean, and modern, it's just very, very small. But they're also in a building with equally small Volvo and Porsche dealers as well.

The Jeep dealer actually does a good amount of business, GCs and Wranglers are popular here, and they sell a ton of Rams. Frankly, I think the problem that they have is they're a small family owner dealership outside of town. We have 2-3 big dealerships that closed down in town that could be easily remodeled (nice facilities too). What would be great is if a well funded, customer oriented group like Autonation were to buy one of those places and put in a real nice CJD dealership in town, they'd be able to sell their higher end models with ease. The little family owned dealer (with its incredibly uncaring sales people) simply has a poor location, poor facility, and honestly is too "old Chrysler" IMO.

But the point you're missing is that Jeep has products they don't NEED to discount heavily to sell anymore. They've made leaps and bounds on their vehicle quality, now they need to upgrade their ownership experience. I didn't buy my Jeep because it was the best value, I bought it because it was the best product.
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  #69  
Old 06-03-2012, 01:55 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
Surprisingly enough, no. The VW dealer here in town is TINY. It's literally under 3000 sqft. They had 2 or 3 Touaregs on their lot, but none were diesels or higher end models. Their facility is nice, clean, and modern, it's just very, very small. But they're also in a building with equally small Volvo and Porsche dealers as well.
So its a VW/Porsche/Volvo dealer?

Quote:
We have 2-3 big dealerships that closed down in town that could be easily remodeled (nice facilities too). What would be great is if a well funded, customer oriented group like Autonation were to buy one of those places and put in a real nice CJD dealership in town, they'd be able to sell their higher end models with ease. The little family owned dealer (with its incredibly uncaring sales people) simply has a poor location, poor facility, and honestly is too "old Chrysler" IMO.
If the larger dealership chains saw potential to do business, they would be there. If the dealers that closed down had the funds to renovate their facilities and continue to do business, they would have.

Imagine you own that little dealer, you make enough money to keep your doors open, pay your staff, and have enough left over for a middle class life for your family (thats probably about where they are). What would you say to someone who said you have to enlarge, modernize your dealership, provide loaners of similar quality to every vehicle you sell (so you need GGC loaners, WK2 loaners, Wrangler loaners, Ram loaners, Chrysler 300 loaners, Dodge Challenger type loaners)...and that you were going to have to foot the bill for all of that yourself. What would you say?

Quote:
But the point you're missing is that Jeep has products they don't NEED to discount heavily to sell anymore. They've made leaps and bounds on their vehicle quality, now they need to upgrade their ownership experience. I didn't buy my Jeep because it was the best value, I bought it because it was the best product.
But what you are missing is...Jeep is but a small part of what the dealers are selling. Its just one model of one brand at a dealership that sells four brands and all their models. The WK2 is doing quite well, but I disagree that they don't need to negotiate in order to sell them. Obviously they do, all you have to look at is the rebates and factory to dealer incentives they have to offer in order to sell the vehicles means that they need help to hit their goals.

Plus, with dealer to dealer competition, a dealership can't draw a line in the sand and say "We're not going to sell our Jeeps for less than this price", when they do that...all you guys on the forum come on here and call them "crooked" etc etc.

You can't have it both ways. If you want quality service...you have to pay for it. If you want cheap service...quality will suffer.
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  #70  
Old 06-05-2012, 06:00 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

I honestly can't see what all the complaining is about. If you get a loaner, what's the difference what kind of vehicle it is? Now, if it is a slimy filfthy vehicle, I could see complaining, but so what if it isn't the same or better than the vehicle you are having serviced.

Some people are never satisfied.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:12 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Well... the power modular came in yesterday, they installed it, and the deadlights still don't work. They check the wiring harness..... nothing....

Now they are ordering new headlight units... one is in ATL and can be here tomorrow and the 2nd is no where in the system. They will not know an ETA until tomorrow sometime.

I called my case manager Chrysler about this issue and that I needed to extend my rental as it is supposed to end today. I have not gotten a call back yet.

Only had the car in my possession for less then 12 hours after I bought it.....Day 16 and counting.
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  #72  
Old 06-07-2012, 07:27 PM
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Re: SOL... yup, I am SOL.

Ugh...won't be long and you can invoke the lemon law...
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