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  #1  
Old 04-22-2015, 11:01 AM
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STOP working on your Jeep, or else...

This should be interesting

Automakers to gearheads: Stop repairing cars

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  #2  
Old 04-22-2015, 12:00 PM
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Re: STOP working on your Jeep, or else...

Ah, the dealers are finally trying to figure out a way to force you to go to a dealer in order to make money on the car.

"Waaaah! We aren't making money on selling cars anymore!"

Well, F all of the dealers. They started this whole thing of negotiating everything with convoluted pricing and this amount or another under invoice. You want to haggle? Then I'm going to take everything I can get on the deal or walk away. You figure out how to get paid on the deal.

If you set up a system where people can demand to pay less, you can't complain when people actually do and you actually accept it.

The fact is, we can't trust automakers to ever do the right thing. As soon as we lose the ability to go to a third party (or check things ourselves), we lose the ability to find dangerous issues that the car companies may be hiding for years.

As more stuff goes toward software, it will only get worse. Something that kills people can just be deleted from the code to avoid a lawsuit with no paper trail.

This is very, very dangerous.
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  #3  
Old 04-22-2015, 12:15 PM
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Re: STOP working on your Jeep, or else...

Welcome to the world of ultimate corporate greed and the 'dumbing' of America.

"Buy our product and when it breaks, throw it away and buy a new one!"

"You don't need to 'fix' our product (and if you try we will sue you)!"

(Gee, sounds a bit like Apple.....)
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Old 04-22-2015, 12:25 PM
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Re: STOP working on your Jeep, or else...

If the dealer actually fixed issues without resorting to crystal balls and dart boards, maybe we could rely on them a bit more.

Half the time, they're as stumped as you are.

Step 1: Deny (That's normal operation, silly customer - nothing to see here...)
Step 2: Take it in a bunch of times to tinker, while fixing nothing and making things worse.
Step 3: Trade in now and we'll give you $1000 bucks off a new one!
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Old 04-22-2015, 02:17 PM
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Re: STOP working on your Jeep, or else...

Jeez! guess its time for me to get out of greedy murica'!
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Old 04-22-2015, 05:22 PM
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Re: STOP working on your Jeep, or else...

On the one hand car manufacturers love car enthusiasts as they help to promote their cars (car designers are car enthusiasts too) BUT on the other hand even if an accident (or warranty claim) is really caused by a modification and not the fault of the car manufacturer, the car manufacturer still gets sued and even if not at fault incurs substantial costs and occasionally really bad PR. Take Apple for instance, people replace iPhone batteries or chargers with cheap knockoffs and when the battery or charger overheats and catches fire you get bad headlines even though not Apple's fault. Apple has had to put special markings and codes on these things since some of the knockoffs look identical.

Tough thing to balance.
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Old 04-22-2015, 05:41 PM
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Re: STOP working on your Jeep, or else...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan JGC View Post
On the one hand car manufacturers love car enthusiasts as they help to promote their cars (car designers are car enthusiasts too) BUT on the other hand even if an accident (or warranty claim) is really caused by a modification and not the fault of the car manufacturer, the car manufacturer still gets sued and even if not at fault incurs substantial costs and occasionally really bad PR. Take Apple for instance, people replace iPhone batteries or chargers with cheap knockoffs and when the battery or charger overheats and catches fire you get bad headlines even though not Apple's fault. Apple has had to put special markings and codes on these things since some of the knockoffs look identical.

Tough thing to balance.
See, on the other hand, if they went about it the right way, you wouldn't have major incidents of people screwing it up.

People use knockoffs and do bad things to their Apple devices because Apple has locked their devices down so there is no sanctioned means to modify them. If they opened up a legitimate upgrade and modification platform, you'd have legitimate after-market products (along with official branded ones) and a massive user support system to keep most people out of trouble.

Then you can limit warranty to claims to those legitmate channels - keep your receipts, everyone...

The same goes for cars. Lock everything down and you'll have people doing all kinds of crazy things to unlock them and access what they should legitimately be able to access.

Offer built in tuning mods and other programmable items in hidden menus, with safe limits in place to prevent doing anything hazardous. Have disclaimers for anything that can hurt you if misused (such as access to touch screen items while driving, etc.).

Go beyond that and your on your own. So, don't turn the volume up to 11 and your covered.

In fact, you could attract the real fans by having contests to create the most useful mods or new and useful apps. What starts out as a user mod may become the next big feature on the latest model. I know I would love to have more control over the shift patterns of my Jeep by dictating RPMs vs. the amount I press the gas pedal to determine when to shift to avoid the transmission always wanting to jump down 2 or more gears just because I accelerated to pass someone.

Plus, you could encourage "hack-a-thons" to test security measures to make sure users are protected.

Embrace it and the community will watch over itself. Deny it and it becomes the wild West.
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Old 04-22-2015, 09:28 PM
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Re: STOP working on your Jeep, or else...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
People use knockoffs and do bad things to their Apple devices because Apple has locked their devices down so there is no sanctioned means to modify them. If they opened up a legitimate upgrade and modification platform, you'd have legitimate after-market products (along with official branded ones) and a massive user support system to keep most people out of trouble.
Say what? People do that because they are cheap and don't think of the consequences then run to Apple expecting them to replace their iPhones when something goes wrong. It costs Apple a ton.

My intent it not to get into some silly debate. I was only making a point as to why car manufacturers are concerned, they get sued so darn much which is an expense they would like to reduce. Cost/benefit analysis, there just isn't any great benefit to car manufacturers to allow software mods. Say with a software mod an engine burns hotter, something goes wrong then the owner changes the software back and claims the car manufacture is at fault. Or worse, the car turns into an 80 MPH missile down the road without proper braking response.

Just saying there are concerns and apparently car manufacturers are reaching for anything to reduce their liabilities. In the end, they will get their way so that there are enough precautions that if someone does a software mod they won't be held liable as easily.
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Old 04-23-2015, 10:00 AM
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Re: STOP working on your Jeep, or else...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NetworkTV View Post
As more stuff goes toward software, it will only get worse. Something that kills people can just be deleted from the code to avoid a lawsuit with no paper trail.
Not to take away from your other arguments, but it really isn't that easy, and it's also a solved problem in software engineering - build summary's or build hashes allow you to find individual builds deployed, and track whats in them. Can you do it with enough willpower and technical know-how? Sure, but you can also replace that fault leaf spring in a demolished car too... no system is perfect.
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