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  #37  
Old 09-06-2014, 09:50 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post

Buuuut...and again, a lot of people don't want the relatively un-luxurious ride of a Wrangler at first. They use their GC as you do...at first. Then use out it's remaining life as something a bit more utilitarian. I know plenty of people that do that and don't want to be stuck with a Wrangler during the initial "beautiful years" of the vehicle. I myself do that.
Buuuut...again, you are comparing an adjustable wrench (WK2) with a box end wrench specifically sized for that task (4 door Unlimited). In my neck of the woods, I see more Unlimiteds on the highways than I do GCs.

And again, I would buy the vehicle better suited to the environment it was going to be used in. I don't care how others waste their money.

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  #38  
Old 09-06-2014, 09:50 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by MDBones View Post
It's not an alignment issue... at the same time, it's one of the best tracking vehicles I've ever had. No vibrations and the tire wear to date has been great and is even across the face of all 4 tires.

It actually can be an alignment issue even with excellent tire wear and tracking. Caster set too high will mimic heavy understeer but track awesome and have no adverse tire wear. Too much equal toe-in will also do this. It will have a bit more wear--but perhaps not noticeable. A LOT of vehicles including the GC will have notable handling differences with even .1 degree of extra toe-in (front OR rear) but with little difference in noticeable tire wear. I had 0.2 degree total toe-in on my rear when I had it checked--moving to spec 0.1 definitely changed it's turn-in feel--and that was on the rear.
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  #39  
Old 09-06-2014, 09:56 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by GCLimited View Post
Buuuut...again, you are comparing an adjustable wrench (WK2) with a box end wrench specifically sized for that task (4 door Unlimited).

And again, I would buy the vehicle better suited to the environment it was going to be used in. I don't care how others waste their money.

You seen to think everyone has the means or desire to purchase two or more new vehicles for different purposes. They don't. The GC is a compromise vehicle. Use it as a lovely mall-crawler at first, then more utilitarian later--keeping it useful until it simply dies. Far more cost effective overall given depreciation and far less of a waste of money if your planned use isn't at the extremes of the spectrum. Why do you think you see plenty of older GCs on trails and used off-road?
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  #40  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:03 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post

You seen to think everyone has the means or desire to purchase two or more new vehicles for different purposes.
You are confusing me with someone else. I've always stated that I would buy the vehicle best suited for the environment you use it in...which would have been the 4 door Unlimited if I off roaded a lot. I only own one vehicle...a 2014 Overland V6 4x4. It also sounds like you've never driven a 4 door Unlimited on the highway...a FAR better ride than the shorter wheelbase Wrangler.

Quote:
The GC is a compromise vehicle.
Hence my "adjustable wrench" comment.

Sorry you don't see things my way.
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  #41  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:15 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by GCLimited View Post
You are confusing me with someone else. I've always stated that I would buy the vehicle best suited for the environment you use it in...which would have been the 4 door Unlimited if I off roaded a lot.



Hence my "adjustable wrench" comment.

Sorry you don't see things my way.

You're missing the time-frame part of the argument (plus you're getting a bit unnecessarily defensive--it academic on here anyway). Here's how I do it: use the GC on-road for let's say 4-5 years. Then, I can use out it's remaining life both on-and off-road (now that it's depreciated, older, less notable, etc) and get another 4-5 years. So, in those last 4-5 years I get to do both assuming I'm not all about rock crawling but instead trail-riding and so forth. 10 years of use out of one vehicle that does both sides reasonably well. Yes, I'm limited somewhat off-road but for a good number of people who aren't thinking about climbing boulders this setup is ideal.

Is there a "best" vehicle for either situation? Sure...but the GC is nether the best for on-road nor off-road. It exists in it's abilities to fill this niche above.

In any case, I was responding to your comment as to people being crazy to take a $40-50k vehicle offroad. That may be true when NEW...but it gets less and less crazy with every year of ownership.
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  #42  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:15 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
It actually can be an alignment issue even with excellent tire wear and tracking. Caster set too high will mimic heavy understeer but track awesome and have no adverse tire wear. Too much equal toe-in will also do this. It will have a bit more wear--but perhaps not noticeable. A LOT of vehicles including the GC will have notable handling differences with even .1 degree of extra toe-in (front OR rear) but with little difference in noticeable tire wear. I had 0.2 degree total toe-in on my rear when I had it checked--moving to spec 0.1 definitely changed it's turn-in feel--and that was on the rear.
Sure it could.

Steering geometry, vehicle weight, amount of body roll, type of tire all have an impact as well. My money is on one or more of these before alignment.
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  #43  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:22 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

I went through the same debate and ended up with a 2014 Overland. However, for the 2015 MY, I would advise you to move up to the Summit. Here's why:

-The Summit is just as capable as the Overland, although somethings, such as 18" wheels and skid plates, need to be added. The front fascia is also not as easily removable as the Overland's, but it is removable (just more clips).

-The Active Noise Cancellation and new acoustically-laminated glass make a HUGE difference. I took a 2015 Summit on a test drive, and the difference in noise was night and day compared to my 2014 Overland.

-The HK sound system is definitely better than the one in the Overland, and the extra noise cancellation measures on the 2015 Summit really allow you to hear more of it.

-The additional features on the Summit are a nice bonus.
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  #44  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:27 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by MDBones View Post
Sure it could.



Steering geometry, vehicle weight, amount of body roll, type of tire all have an impact as well. My money is on one or more of these before alignment.

The geometry on the GC is pretty standard. Your suspension "give" will very much play a roll of course. I was just saying that if you haven't you might want to look at your alignment just in case as I don't perceive a massive amount of understeer on mine. But, that can also be subjective.

Putting the SRT anti-sway bars on can really make a difference with this too.
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  #45  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:30 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post

You're missing the time-frame part of the argument (plus you're getting a bit unnecessarily defensive--it academic on here anyway).
I'm not missing anything...and I believe my opinion still rings true about spending all that money and taking an expensive WK2 "heavy offroading". You are the only one who brought up the topic of some sort of time frame of diminished ownership down the road.

I also don't feel I was being defensive...only stating my side of the argument, like you. Sorry you took it the wrong way. I don't care in the least how other people spend their money, or how they fail to plan for the future.
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  #46  
Old 09-06-2014, 10:38 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by Peter_K View Post
The geometry on the GC is pretty standard. Your suspension "give" will very much play a roll of course. I was just saying that if you haven't you might want to look at your alignment just in case as I don't perceive a massive amount of understeer on mine. But, that can also be subjective.

Putting the SRT anti-sway bars on can really make a difference with this too.
The geometry on the WK2 GC is standard for this particular generation. In my opinion it has a lot different feeling from previous generations... some good, some not so good. The understeer was never an issue for me in previous generations, or with any other vehicle I've owned... which is why it really stands out to me on my 14. That is my number 1 gripe about the vehicle.

But thanks, I'll definitely talk to the service department about an alignment check to rule that out as the cause.
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  #47  
Old 09-06-2014, 11:07 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

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Originally Posted by GCLimited View Post
What a crazy statement. I would NEVER take my Overland on more than grass/dirt/gravel/snow covered roads because I didn't pay all that money just to screw it up needlessly.

Not saying that the 2014 Grand Cherokee isn't capable off the asphalt, but who in their right mind would pay $45,000 - $55,000 on a WK2 unibody vehicle, and go heavy offroading in it?



That's what the Wrangler is for...Unlimited for the four doors.


Lol, we would have this same argument on the range rover forum at the $100k price range all the time. I don't off road and don't trust myself with this car or the range rover I had off road, but there are many people that buy range rovers and go on their off road adventures all the time.
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  #48  
Old 09-06-2014, 11:24 AM
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Re: Struggling with decision... Overland or Summit

OP you're definitely not alone when it comes to trying to chose between the two models. I'm in the market for a 2015 and I have it narrowed down to either the Summit or Overland.

While I prefer the overall look of the Overland, especially from the front, both the HK sound system and new noise cancellation features available in the 2015 Summit are leaving me with a tough decision. I'm not a huge fan of chrome so in the end I'm most likely going to go with a Summit and include the platinum package as well.
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