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  #49  
Old 08-29-2012, 08:52 PM
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Re: Summit now or wait for 2014 Overland?

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Originally Posted by CaptRB View Post
There is ALWAYS a better version around the corner. 6 months or 24 your car is a rapidly declining investment. The changes in the 2014 won't render my 2012 less of a SUV. It will still be luxurious, safe and insanely capable.
BTW, I paid under 42K for a Overland with Adaptive cruise, Hemi, Summit grill and chrome package.
I think I'll enjoy this "inexpensive" Overland and then see what a 2015 Summit has to offer. The 2014 is going to have issues with tranny as they get that dialed in. Jeep is NOT Honda. They'll need a year at least. I have two friends with 2011 WK2 and BOY am I glad I waited a year for most of the bugs to get ironed out. So I don't see a viable Jeep in in 6 months like you do. You see it because it's what you want and you'll take a chance. Not me though.


Robert
Actually, I will be getting a MY15 Summit - I only claimed what I would do if I would be in the market right now.

I'm not scared about the new tranny or anything else new on the MY14 since there will be a warranty.

I'm following this board for quite a while now and I don't recall a high "failure-rate" when the WK2 was introduced.
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  #50  
Old 08-30-2012, 12:06 AM
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Re: Summit now or wait for 2014 Overland?

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Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
I'm more of dissatisfied with the speed at which it was refreshed. rather than doing a significant refresh after 2.5 model years of a new vehicle, they should have just launched with it or delayed the refresh IMO. And a LOT of the features of the refresh should have been included from the start.

The only real glimmer of hope I have is that despite the HUGE improvement in the WK2 over the WK1, WK1 Overland residuals remain strong.


I think the underlying point is that this whole "the much better model is coming in months" thing is hanging over Jeep's head. How many people have skipped out on buying a '12 or '13 because they're waiting for the '14?

Personally, I'm not all that impressed by the upgrades to the '14. The 8 speed transmission will likely never be able to pick what gear it wants - people already complain about the 5 and 6 speeds shifting too much. LED taillights should have been standard from the beginning, but it's possible they'll fit pre-refresh models, otherwise it's only a matter of time before someone starts making them for the pre-facelift. The LED DRLs, that's honestly just cheesy at this point IMO. The H/K system I'm sure will be a nice offering, and should have been offered from the start, but truth be told I can build a better stereo for less than the H/K system upgrade will cost. The Alpine is good enough for me though. Blueray player doesn't appeal to me, I've never had any issues with my power inverter, underseat lighting has been added by many already for $5, HD radio is a joke in itself, smartphone apps to control the car require monthly subscriptions (as does this ecall thing most likely).

Honestly, the only real beneficial upgrade I see is the 8.4" screen, which frankly should have debuted on the 2011. Journey has that and LED taillights, so why the heck can't the top of the line Jeep have those?

One of the features that would actually be a feature I would want that I don't think is coming on the 2014 is heated/cooled cupholders. Preferably with the ability to set them to different levels (I like my coffee warm, but not boiling lava hot).

I can tell you that 2.5 years is normal for a refresh and 5 years for a total redo. I can also tell you that the 8 speed is a super smooth transmission you don't even feel it shift. It can upshift and downshift several gears in the time it takes a regular trans to shift one gear. It for sure will be a big improvement. To you question about how many people waited its hard to say but I do know that all along chrysler has had a hard time keeping up with the demand so it can't be that many. Any automaker has to keep improving the product thats what keeps people coming into the showroom and thats whats going on here.
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  #51  
Old 08-30-2012, 01:44 AM
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I could have waited, but the added features were not a.breaking point so I bought a 12. The 8 speed trans was not a deal breaker either. I needed a 4wd qt1 and.got it. Its all,in preference, but in my eyes the upgrades arent worth the wait.

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  #52  
Old 08-30-2012, 06:25 AM
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Re: Summit now or wait for 2014 Overland?

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Originally Posted by GCOverland View Post
Sure (although some of these vehicles would cost much more than $42K) - but we are talking about additional options and features - we are not talking about sacrificing off-road capability in exchange for heated cup-holders. We already know that the Jeep is a capable off-roader and we also know that it won't handle on-road like a Cayenne any time soon. That's why we are talking about potential new features (or "gimmicks") and that's the purpose of this entire thread.
+1

There are a lot of JGC owners who will never use the full capabilities of the 4WD system, whether on or off-road. I suspect most were drawn to the Jeep by a combination of styling and value proposition.

The other vehicles such as MDX, Q7, X5, etc have advantages that can't be matched by the Jeep GC. Those attributes would be better on-road performance, more content and/or better service. Granted the penalty is a higher buy price. But that speaks to the value proposition of the Jeep.

FWIW, I owned a Q7 w/ the 4.2 engine for 3.5 years. Great vehicle and I never had issues getting around on unplowed roads. Did I take it off-road, no. I now own a MY11 JGC Overland w/ Hemi. It's been reliable except for a radio replacement.

I am not knocking the Jeep, no. I am making a point that the other vehicles are very good and meet the criteria of the average buyer. The average buyer doesn't care about AWD vs. 4WD. Rather they want technology (including a heated/cooled cup holder).
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  #53  
Old 08-30-2012, 06:32 AM
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Re: Summit now or wait for 2014 Overland?

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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
I can tell you that 2.5 years is normal for a refresh and 5 years for a total redo. I can also tell you that the 8 speed is a super smooth transmission you don't even feel it shift. It can upshift and downshift several gears in the time it takes a regular trans to shift one gear. It for sure will be a big improvement. To you question about how many people waited its hard to say but I do know that all along chrysler has had a hard time keeping up with the demand so it can't be that many. Any automaker has to keep improving the product thats what keeps people coming into the showroom and thats whats going on here.
+1

While the transmission is relatively new to Chryco it is not a new transmission. For the first year application with the Hemi engines, perhaps there could be some TSB's to address software coding but I suspect the mechanical components will be fine. At some point, one must take a chance.

At some point in time the Hemi will be phased out for a FI setup. I can only imagine the uproar from the traditionalist. However, I would take the 3.5 Eco-boost engine over the Hemi even it the first year production.
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  #54  
Old 08-30-2012, 08:17 AM
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Re: Summit now or wait for 2014 Overland?

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Originally Posted by NHman View Post

At some point in time the Hemi will be phased out for a FI setup. I can only imagine the uproar from the traditionalist. However, I would take the 3.5 Eco-boost engine over the Hemi even it the first year production.
My brother thinks his 3.5 Eco-boost is a POS. But he is a truck kind of guy, never really drove cars. He's going to be dumping it soon.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:09 AM
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Re: Summit now or wait for 2014 Overland?

FYI...we test drove the Audi Q5 which was nicely loaded at a LOWER MSRP than the Overland. We also checked out the Q7, which had NAV and Sunroof for 1K higher MSRP. We hated the Q7, but if wanted one we could have gotten a 2012 for about 5K more and it's a LOT bigger for that money. The audi dealer told me the Overland is their biggest cross-shopping competition. Most of us who can pay 45K for a Jeep Overland can swing 48K or even 55K. If you want the badge and the luxury the other brands are nice. If you TRULY need the 4WD abilities and the air suspension then the Jeep stands almost alone on the market. BTW, we also looked at an LR4 with HSE package at 50K and I never tried to work on that price because the NEW LR4 wouldn't start!

If you need what a Jeep does, get a Jeep. If you need a luxury SUV and plan to use it like a car then the Jeep is not all that special. It's nice to be sure. But so are many other SUV's at the 45K-50K price point.
What makes the GC special is the Overland package which bests the LR4 and then essentially stands alone in it's segment. So all these so-called upgrades don't tickle me one bit. I can add all kinds of toys to my Overland over the next 2-4 years and then start checking out the new ones if I get bored!
The only serious question now? Will this Overland match my previous cars for reliability?


Robert
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Old 08-30-2012, 12:23 PM
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Re: Summit now or wait for 2014 Overland?

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My brother thinks his 3.5 Eco-boost is a POS. But he is a truck kind of guy, never really drove cars. He's going to be dumping it soon.
I have driven a Taurus SHO which has the 3.5 Eco-boost. While I didn't like the car, the powertrain was impressive. It's still too new for any worthwhile data as to how it will hold-up over the long haul. In general, this is direction most (if not all) manufacturers will be going, smaller displacement with FI. Buyers want the power but also fuel economy.

If I recall correctly, sales of the Eco-boost exceed that of the standard NA V8. There will be some who don't want this option or opt for the traditional setup. As a whole, IMO, will accept this direction.

This is not meant to be a thread-jack but just a quick point on Hemi and (hopefully) the benefits of adding an 8-speed auto transmission. This would only be a patch until a FI engine is available (of some configuration).
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Old 08-30-2012, 02:29 PM
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the ecoboost f150 has outsold any na v8 since hitting the market. it has the same amount of power, better and.konger torque, and can out haul, pull, accelerate, and better mpg. It is the wave of the future. Both dodge and chevy are hitting back. Dodge is getting the pentastar with awesome numbers. i would own a v6 truck.

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Old 08-30-2012, 04:45 PM
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Re: Summit now or wait for 2014 Overland?

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Originally Posted by jp467 View Post
I can tell you that 2.5 years is normal for a refresh and 5 years for a total redo. I can also tell you that the 8 speed is a super smooth transmission you don't even feel it shift. It can upshift and downshift several gears in the time it takes a regular trans to shift one gear. It for sure will be a big improvement. To you question about how many people waited its hard to say but I do know that all along chrysler has had a hard time keeping up with the demand so it can't be that many. Any automaker has to keep improving the product thats what keeps people coming into the showroom and thats whats going on here.
If you look at other models, 2.5 years is NOT normal for a refresh. Look at the RX350, the gold standard in luxury SUV in terms of sales. The current generation was introduced in 2009, in 2013 it gets a refresh, which consists of no major upgrades, just some color and visual tweaks. That's 4 FULL years of production with no refreshes, and the refresh is minor and will likely go another 4 years. The Acura MDX has been around since 2007 with the only "refresh" being a nose job in 2010. The BMW X5 has been around since 2007 as well, with an engine upgrade and refresh for 2011.

4-5 years is about normal for a refresh, with a new model every 7-9 years for successful models. Heck, the XC90 has been largely unchanged since its inception in 2002, and the Range Rover lasted without major changes from 2003 to 2010. Only models that are selling poorly get refreshes with the speed that you're talking about.

And if you look at brands/models with historically high residuals, they don't have the quick refresh cycle, they tend to have the longest refresh cycles. Refreshing and replacing vehicles quickly has a very negative effect on residuals, and on customer loyalty. Imagine all the people who buy a brand new 2013 GC that aren't on this forum and don't know about the 2014 coming in a few months that will be burned by the half model years, how do you think they're going to feel?

As far as the V8s go...
I think some people will always want a V8, especially in a vehicle like the Grand Cherokee. Not offering a V8, even if they offer a turbo6 that has similar power, I think will turn off a lot of buyers. You'll get the "one more thing to break", "there's no replacement for displacement", "coulda had a v8" crowds. I think that offering both powertrains is a good idea, and that a lot of people buying SUVs like the GC want a big, simple V8 that they can work on themselves and replace parts on cheaply. I can replace the spark plugs on the Hemi for less than it used to cost on my old V6 vehicle despite it having 10 more plugs than the V6 did, because they're just run of the mill copper plugs that are cheap and readily available. I had to order the plugs for my V6 online to get them at anything less than highway robbery prices.
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Old 09-17-2012, 11:53 PM
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Re: Summit now or wait for 2014 Overland?

Hi, new here, in the process of looking to buy a '13 Summit hemi 4x4 and while doing research stumbled upon this forum, great find from what I can tell! Ive read conflicting information as it relates to the MY2014 release from different sources -- the first delivery appears to be set for roughly March '13, but some info states the diesel will be released first, with the 6 and 8 to follow later in the year, while others seem to imply all models will be avail at the same time, anything you can point me to with good data? Waiting 6 months for delivery would be one thing for me, but waiting closer to a year, another. Thanks for any help and try to go easy on me if I missed a thread! I tried reading as much as I could.
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