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  #37  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:02 AM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

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Originally Posted by canistel View Post
Actually that's not really all that accurate. Elon has mentioned that very few Tesla customers are actually interested in the battery swap program. They already have this working (swap batteries in a minute or two), but have put all that on the backburner for now due to lack of demand / interest. The issue with the tesla is not so much the time-to-charge, it's the uncertainty of knowing whether you'll make it to your destination, and if you can charge it when you get there; battery swap doesn't change that, it just changes the speed at which you can get on your way, but that range anxiety is still very much there.

I don't think pure electric is the way to go, right now. The volt has the right idea; electric for the most part, but just top it up with gas to get you as far as you need to go. The volt can be your primary, and only car, whereas tesla is only a car for those with money (2+ vehicles) or for those who will never take it on camping trips etc etc. In 20 years if the infrastructure has changed to have power charging at every gas station, well then an electric only might be more viable. Too bad the volt looks hideous.
There are not enough vehicles around yet for the swap program. Once there are enough vehicles swapping will take off (unless of course can fully recharge in under 10 minutes then not needed).

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  #38  
Old 07-22-2015, 10:04 AM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

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Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
My biggest question is why do people say no emissions? It takes a ton of power to charge these things. Doesn't that produce pollution somewhere?....
No point emissions....that is at the point of use as in at each vehicle. Certainly there are emissions for coal electric plants but that is much easier to control at such few electric plants versus millions and millions of vehicles (and more efficient too). Other electric sources fewer emissions obviously, too bad nuclear never was fully implemented since the 70's (of course the storage issue is huge with nuclear waste).
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  #39  
Old 07-22-2015, 11:31 AM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

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Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
I give it 1 year until the redesign of those doors. Or maybe they kill the model altogether. Can you imagine the overhead and side clearance one needs for these doors in the typical garage ? OK, maybe a millionaire's garage is a bit bigger than the regular garage but then again, taking the car down town to see opera, and parking in an multi-story garage...is just a nightmare waiting to happen.

Not to mention concerns about kids opening those doors. At any rate, I can't wait to see it fail in winter weather :-)

Actually, it's designed to fit in a regular garage and open straight up. See for yourself on their web site. You can drag your mouse up & down to open/close the doors on the image of the car. They've thought about that. Hell, I have to back my JGC in the garage or I'll hit the garage door if I open my tailgate. I think the JGC opens up higher than the Tesla will. lol

Model X | Tesla Motors
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  #40  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:09 PM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

For some of us, if we could afford that we wouldn't be on this forum. LOL.
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  #41  
Old 07-22-2015, 03:59 PM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

What's and extra 25-35 when you're already spending 50 plus 😂😂😂
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  #42  
Old 07-22-2015, 04:48 PM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

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Originally Posted by Dan JGC View Post
There are not enough vehicles around yet for the swap program. Once there are enough vehicles swapping will take off (unless of course can fully recharge in under 10 minutes then not needed).
Small matter of physics--how to move a lot of energy safely and reliably from a charging station to the vehicles batteries without a connector the size of the vehicle.

I like the idea of hybrids, where a small very high efficiency diesel or gas engine could be used to charge the batteries, possibly even if it can't move the vehicle.

For an SUV, possibly making the sunroof one of those new high efficiency solar panels could work--but their energy capability typically requires many square yards.

A small atomic powered charger would probably not be at all politically acceptable

Batteries may just be a waystation on the path to fuel cells, where the two are roughly equivalent in danger of explosions but then good old gas isn't exactly ice cream.
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  #43  
Old 07-22-2015, 04:53 PM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

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Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
My biggest question is why do people say no emissions? It takes a ton of power to charge these things. Doesn't that produce pollution somewhere?....
Yes it does, but the pollution accountants are masters of hiding numbers in plain sight.

One theory is that it is easier to control pollution from a small number of very large sources rather than from a considerably larger number of small sources.

This also ignores the total life cycle pollution, where there are some really ugly facts being swept under the rug in the interest of political correctness.

Electric propulsion is nice in that max torque is similar to steam--available right at beginning of rpm. Transmissions have been an issue, aka why the Tesla's don't have them yet.
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  #44  
Old 07-22-2015, 05:23 PM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

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Originally Posted by lstowell View Post
Yes it does, but the pollution accountants are masters of hiding numbers in plain sight.

One theory is that it is easier to control pollution from a small number of very large sources rather than from a considerably larger number of small sources.

This also ignores the total life cycle pollution, where there are some really ugly facts being swept under the rug in the interest of political correctness.

Electric propulsion is nice in that max torque is similar to steam--available right at beginning of rpm. Transmissions have been an issue, aka why the Tesla's don't have them yet.
Not everything is just politics. A giant electricity "factory" is massively more efficient and environmentally friendly than a little suv; that's not just a theory. It's all about efficiencies of scale, and not having to worry about stuff like weight (whatever you add to your car to make it less polluting adds weight, or gives you a poor tradeoff like reduced performance, whereas that's not an issue for a factory). Electric propulsion is also more efficient; more energy that you put into the production of electricity is directly used to propel the car, vs the amount of energy used to propel an ICE car. I admit batteries are dirty, but that tech can (and does) advance through the years too.

Tesla doesn't exactly need a transmission either; why put one in? It accelerates like a rocket (0-60 in 2.8 seconds or something ridiculous like that) and reaches highway speeds faster than any other sedan on the market. Adding a transmission is just baggage left over from a ICE setup where torque is produced in a small range.
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  #45  
Old 07-22-2015, 05:39 PM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
I give it 1 year until the redesign of those doors. Or maybe they kill the model altogether. Can you imagine the overhead and side clearance one needs for these doors in the typical garage ?
It's a misnomer that those doors need more clearance than regular doors. In fact, all doors of that type require far less than traditional doors.

As far as height, unless your garage was built for Oompa Loompas, there should be plenty of clearance, even with the overhead door in the up position. Don't forget, the current models are shorter than the Jeep and an open Jeep tail gate fits easily below a raised garage door. You just might not be able to operate the door while the gate is open due to the control arm sticking down too far.
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  #46  
Old 07-22-2015, 05:57 PM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

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Originally Posted by overlanding View Post
My biggest question is why do people say no emissions? It takes a ton of power to charge these things. Doesn't that produce pollution somewhere?....
Two things:

1) Coal plants are on the wain and only generate a small percentage of power. For example, my parents in Upstate NY are on Hydro. In other places, alternative energy sources are equaling what coal used to provide. The most popular source is natural gas. Nuclear is also a small percentage, and not likely to increase much due to public pressure to squash it.

2) The amount of hydrocarbons one single gas car generates in one hour is equal to a full charge off the grid for around 100 electric cars. The reason is due to efficiency. The generators at power plants are far more efficient than a car's internal combustion engine. Further, most of those generators are running anyway, so the additional load for your car is nothing.

The idea that the amount of pollution in the chain between gas vs electric is anywhere comparable is FUD, pure and simple.
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  #47  
Old 07-22-2015, 06:27 PM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

Anyone else seen the super fast battery swap facilities they plan to open? For a small fee, less than filling up a regular tank, you pull up and your battery pack is dropped and replaced. Does it all in half the time it takes to visit and fill up at a regular gas station. They have a YouTube video of it.

That will make travel plans go a lot smoother. Looks like a pretty cool idea.

https://youtu.be/HlaQuKk9bFg
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  #48  
Old 07-22-2015, 07:22 PM
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Re: Tesla Model X SUV --- tempting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by canistel View Post
Not everything is just politics. A giant electricity "factory" is massively more efficient and environmentally friendly than a little suv; that's not just a theory. It's all about efficiencies of scale, and not having to worry about stuff like weight (whatever you add to your car to make it less polluting adds weight, or gives you a poor tradeoff like reduced performance, whereas that's not an issue for a factory). Electric propulsion is also more efficient; more energy that you put into the production of electricity is directly used to propel the car, vs the amount of energy used to propel an ICE car. I admit batteries are dirty, but that tech can (and does) advance through the years too.

Tesla doesn't exactly need a transmission either; why put one in? It accelerates like a rocket (0-60 in 2.8 seconds or something ridiculous like that) and reaches highway speeds faster than any other sedan on the market. Adding a transmission is just baggage left over from a ICE setup where torque is produced in a small range.
Theory is great. How many power plants meet their carbon quotas by buying pollution credits--since it costs a LOT of money to retrofit a big generating plant.

In other words, the plant still pollutes, but has purchased an indulgence.

EV batteries are made with some fairly toxic stuff that is a tad hard to come by.
One rumored reason why Tesla located where Silver Peak is just down the road.

A decent modern engine can dump out air that has less pollution than what went into it... and if you coat all of the warmer [as in radiator warm levels] with catalysts, it can clean the air as it trundles down the road. Check out a Volvo patent for radiators that does exactly this.
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