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  #37  
Old 11-20-2011, 12:21 PM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

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Originally Posted by JoePistone View Post
There is a lot more crap to contribute to our environment than big ol' v8 engines.
I didn't say anything about the environment.

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Plus, I like the fact that more and more people want smaller engines. Just makes me feel like there's more V8 to go around for the Hemi lovers. If you want a v6, then get one, if you want a v8 then get one. HEMI Powered jeeps are the last thing to worry about when looking at the envrionment.
My guess would be this is the last Jeep you'll ever see the Hemi in...all the other manufacturers have dropped a V8 offering in their midsized SUV. Jeep will be next.

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Originally Posted by ryorde
The point I was intending to make is this; Robust performance and fuel economy are almost mutually exclusive. It irritates me when people berate engineers for not designing a 600hp V8 that gets 40mpg. Its not their fault, its never going to happen when you're burning 87 or 89.
I think you wholly underestimate what its possible to achieve in this area. Look at what kind of economy these vehicles WERE getting even 10 years ago, and look at it now. Even the Hemi V8 is WAY more efficient than it ever used to be. Give them time.

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I'm happy to save money at the pump too, but I would rather stop paying $3.50 per gallon.
I'd like a pet cat that poops diamonds. Both are fantasy.

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If the V6 JGC cuts it for you, then you probably bought it for looks more than function. Which I understand, its a fine looking vehicle. But please don't come here and tell me I'm destroying the environment with my V8
When did I ever say that you were destroying the environment? I just reacted to your ridiculous sense of "male pride" that seemed to come from the fact that your vehicle has a V8 and gets terrible mileage, and your insinuation that anyone who even cared about fuel economy or drove something without a V8 was "girly". Thats a wholly stupid comment, and obviously you realize it now. If you think that you are more of a "man" than me because you have a V8 and I have a V6...you must lead a sad and pathetic life.

As for my V6 JGC, the ignorance is coming back here. I don't need to tow or haul...so in what way is your Hemi Jeep "more capable" than mine? I bought it for light offroading (trails to campsites, etc), trips, snow. It may be faster...or more accurately "less slow"...but I'm not looking for a 5,000lb SUV to be fast.

Enlighten me...
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  #38  
Old 11-20-2011, 01:04 PM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

I'd be pretty down if the v8s became discontinued. All jokes aside, it's a matter of choice and what u need from an engine. No one is more or less of a man because of what they drive. It's about taste. I enjoy the hemi, from it's rumble to it's hauling to it's power. If gas mileage is the trade off I'm okay with that. Though I doubt they willkill the v8 unless they are able to produce a v6 that can rival it's towing capabilities. Even then i think they willstill try to cater to the hemi fanboys. As long as there is a market for it, i think theyll keep producing it. Even if the market is smaller than it used to be. Just my opinion.
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  #39  
Old 11-20-2011, 02:10 PM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

SW30ES, I think you mistake my posts as written only toward you. I was not simply replying to your post. I know that you made no mention of the environment, but others did. I didn't mean to imply that an in-line 4 was girly, they have their place. But when you put one in a large SUV and ask it to do the work of a V8 just so the EPA will give it high marks in a little ridiculous. As far as gas prices go, it wasn't all that long ago when prices were well under 2 dollars per gallon. So I would hardly call it "fantasy". For me the V8 isn't about speed. If I wanted speed, I would have waited for the 2012 SRT8. If you don't need the extra capabilities afforded for the V8, then I applaud your fiscally responsible decision to purchase the V6 and save the money instead of wasting it on features that are useless to you. But the reality is, the V6 and the V8 are not equal. I realize that my choice of words was poor, especially in text form to those that do not know me personally. I did not mean to imply that is was less manly to drive a V6 or any other engine for that matter.
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  #40  
Old 11-20-2011, 04:17 PM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

ryorde

I appreciate your apology for yesterday's inflammatory post. I think that people get a little too personally invested in their opinions sometimes. I try to avoid that, but your post still raised my eyebrows.

I chose the V8 over the V6 because I never want to feel like my Jeep is underpowered. I'm happy with it, although I'm not pleased with the diesel like chugging sound that it makes. I wish that it were more efficient than it is, in either fuel economy or performance. I think that it's slow for a car with a 360 hp/390 lb-ft engine, albeit a 5,000+ lb car. Given that my average mileage drops down to about 12-1/2 mpg during local driving in very hilly terrain, I'd expect more performance than it has. If my average mileage were 17 mpg, I think that I'd be perfectly satisfied with the performance.

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  #41  
Old 11-20-2011, 07:04 PM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

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Originally Posted by JoePistone View Post
Though I doubt they willkill the v8 unless they are able to produce a v6 that can rival it's towing capabilities. Even then i think they willstill try to cater to the hemi fanboys. As long as there is a market for it, i think theyll keep producing it. Even if the market is smaller than it used to be. Just my opinion.
Every other manufacturer of midsized SUVs has dropped their V8...its going to happen. The demand for the V8 drops year over year as gas prices rise, and with the new CAFE standards you'll see the diesel taking over as the towing option and no more V8. I'd bet money on it.

People in other countries tow, without V8s. Todays' V6 has more power and capability than yesterday's V8...give it time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryorde
SW30ES, I think you mistake my posts as written only toward you.
Actually I didn't think your posts were written towards me at all.

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I didn't mean to imply that an in-line 4 was girly
Really? I must have misunderstood this statement, by you:

Quote:
Fuel economy equals some girly 4 cylinder engine
How silly of me to have misunderstood that...

Quote:
it wasn't all that long ago when prices were well under 2 dollars per gallon. So I would hardly call it "fantasy".
Right, gas prices were under $2 a gallon...when the economy was in a freefall.

Its not anymore, and if it were we'd all have bigger problems than gas prices. Just last week oil prices hit new highs.

Gas is going to be $3+ a gallon from now on. Talk to some economists.

Quote:
If you don't need the extra capabilities afforded for the V8, then I applaud your fiscally responsible decision to purchase the V6 and save the money instead of wasting it on features that are useless to you.
You applaud me...yet you deride my purchase as being one of a vehicle with no capabilities I just bought for the "look". Your post from before:

Quote:
If the V6 JGC cuts it for you, then you probably bought it for looks more than function
Obviously, I misunderstand again.

Quote:
But the reality is, the V6 and the V8 are not equal.
Never said they were in this vehicle. BUT, there are V6s that are equal or better performing than V8s. Something is not automatically superior because its a "V8".

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But when you put one [a 4cyl] in a large SUV and ask it to do the work of a V8
Again, give it time. Look at the performance figures of the Pentastar V6 and compare them to the V8 in the WJ. You have to give up on this idea that having 8 cylinders is the be all and end all to a SUV being "capable". With each passing year as technology gets better and better they can get more performance out of more efficient engine configurations. Today's V6 does what yesterday's V8 could do, today's I4 does what yesterday's V6 could do. You have BMW Twin Turbo I6s that get 300hp and 300 ft/lbs of torque and drive a 4,200lb sedan 0-60 in 5 seconds...and get 30MPG on the highway. Not that long ago that was V8 performance...at 23MPG hwy.

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I did not mean to imply that is was less manly to drive a V6 or any other engine for that matter.
Uh huh. If you're going to make a statement, stand by it. Don't make a definitive statement and then try and back off from it afterwards. You subscribe to the school of "there's no replacement for displacement". I subscribe to the school that the only benefit of displacement that technology can't achieve is its ability to make up for a teeny weenie.
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  #42  
Old 11-20-2011, 10:42 PM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

ryorde and SW03ES - Are you related somehow? Lemme guess; SW03ES is ryorde's mother in law?
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  #43  
Old 11-21-2011, 01:38 AM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

SW03ES, I understand where you're coming from. What you're saying is true. As time goes by, the 6 cylinder engines are getting better and better. I'd still put my Porsche up for a race to race almost any naturally aspirated V8 SUV anyday on a track or in a straight line. Though, for SUVs I don't see that changing. I know Ford have made the switch to V6s are their top engine for SUVs and other companies are too but look at GM. The Tahoe has been sporting their V8 for a long time and it doesn't look to be going anywhere.

I'm just saying maybe the JGC will lose it, but someone else will be making v8 SUVs, for the time being at least. I simply believe that as long as there's a market there will be supply.

I know in the middle east, you won't be seeing much diesel engines around. In Kuwait, in the past 5 years, I've seen only 1 diesel engine (VW tiguan, funny enough I saw it about 6-7 weeks ago). I even spoke to the owner cause I was super intrigued. The owner said it was an import from when he was living in Germany. I think there will still be a big market for V8 SUVS. Granted your points make absolute sense. I still think they will be in production for at least the next 5-10 years. Half of Kuwait runs on V8 SUVs. Half the SUVs you see on the road here are Chevy Tahoes and GMC Yukon (no joke, you can't go out and see less than 10 of them on a 5 min drive). Granted I'm a little ignorant about diesel engine performance so I don't want to exactly say they can't push what V8 fuel engines are pushing, that would just be silly. But to my understanding, as a work horse, V8s are currently the way to go. I could be wrong, would be the smarter thing to research this before saying it but I'm too lazy and it's still too early in the morning here for me to bother with that lol.

As to Ryorde. Don't take his words too harshly. You know how it is on boards, people tend to use certain vocabulary and not really mean it. I'm guilty of it sometimes and I'm sure you are too. It's the internet, we get carried away and sometimes let our fingers jump past our train of thought. We usually end up typing stuff we really don't mean such as "girly". I feel his pain though because you'll find a lot of haters towards the V8s these days (not necessarily pointing the finger at you) and the fact of the matter is a lot of them just don't want to put the extra cash on the fuel, purchase and maintenance of the engine. Which is fair, especially considering today's economy. Again not saying you are one of them. It all comes down to choice and even if the choice is financial, that is the persons preference. It's like when people smoke, they know they are making a choice that is going to cost them more and create more pollution and many other effects but hey, it's their personal choice to make. Granted it effects everyone else too but since it's not illegal, it's part of someone's free will to chose to smoke or not. The same goes with the V8 I guess. Silly analogy but works in a weird twisted way. Personally, I gave up on smoking and couldn't be happier. Though I'd be super sad to see the v8s disappear. Everything from their rumble to their beefy size just drives me insane. Could be my childhood infatuation with V8 powered American muscle cars. Anyways, my point being is no one should have any hard feelings towards anyone for things said on this board whether or not they sound stupid. I never take offense over the internet no matter how degrading or silly I think it is. Simply because it's the internet. I'm not preaching, just giving out my opinion. Your free to take it however you like, I'm just stating how I see what's transpired. Not justifying anyone, just trying to show a different light in perspective.

Anyways, I think we've established, as long as V8s are alive - you're free to chose what you wish.
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  #44  
Old 11-21-2011, 04:57 PM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

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Originally Posted by JoePistone View Post
I know in the middle east, you won't be seeing much diesel engines around. In Kuwait, in the past 5 years, I've seen only 1 diesel engine (VW tiguan, funny enough I saw it about 6-7 weeks ago). I even spoke to the owner cause I was super intrigued. The owner said it was an import from when he was living in Germany. I think there will still be a big market for V8 SUVS. Granted your points make absolute sense. I still think they will be in production for at least the next 5-10 years. Half of Kuwait runs on V8 SUVs.
Thats Kuwait though, I'm talking about the US market. Bear in mind, your gas is WAY cheaper than ours is, and you don't have the Government imposed CAFE standards we have. I don't think two markets could be any less similar than Kuwait and the US. I think in April of this year your gas was 87 US cents a gallon? Ours was almost $4. Why would anyone want a diesel when gasoline is basically free and there are no emissions standards?

When you look at other places where gas is similar cost or more, you just don't see V8 vehicles. Look at Europe, they tow, haul things...they do it with diesel...not gas vehicles and certainly not V8s. I think we're going to see the types of vehicles we have here start to look similar.

Quote:
Half the SUVs you see on the road here are Chevy Tahoes and GMC Yukon (no joke, you can't go out and see less than 10 of them on a 5 min drive).
Thats how it was here when gas was under $1 a gallon.

Quote:
Granted I'm a little ignorant about diesel engine performance so I don't want to exactly say they can't push what V8 fuel engines are pushing, that would just be silly.
You should do some research into them. The performance of the CRD WK2 and the V8 WK2 aren't very dissimilar actually.

I think its altogether possible you'd still see V8 Jeeps in your part of the world, the question is here. Like I said, in the US the JGC is the last midsized SUV to offer V8 power, all its competitors have dropped their V8 offering. The Explorer is a 6 and a 4 option as the top motor now, 4Runner? V6. GM still has V8s in its full size SUVs, but not in its midsized Traverse. Hell...you guys are getting the new Chevy Trailblazer which is similar to the Jeep...they're not even going to sell it here.

Its a changing world in the US, as gas prices continue to go up, customer demend for inefficient vehicles is dropping. People want performance AND efficiency, and with the ever tightening CAFE standards, pretty soon Chrysler won't be able offer a vehicle as inefficient as the Hemi WK2 in their lineup...even if there was demand.
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  #45  
Old 11-22-2011, 01:47 AM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

That is true. It's a shame to see all these V8s drop like flies. Like I said, what you're saying makes absolute sense. Though I think since demands here in the Middle East are so high, they will probably consider V8s for exports. I don't see how they could ignore such large segment of their market (Middle East). We pay inflated prices at the dealers for their vehicles (almost any car company here in Kuwait charges a high premium - Especially the Americans, costs atleast 20%-25% more expensive here). Then we pay extremely high costs at dealers for maintenance cause they keep trying to jerk us around with labor costs. We'd be too significant for them to ignore, I think so I'd imagine a V8 would still remain as long as there is a chunk in the world such as the Middle East who will demand it.

If I was Chrysler, I'd be smart about it. I'd set up locations and factories outside the US. But then again, this should have been done a long time ago and not during these hard times. lol then again this may just be my bias for my hemi love speaking.
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Old 11-22-2011, 08:36 AM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

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Originally Posted by JoePistone View Post
That is true. It's a shame to see all these V8s drop like flies. Like I said, what you're saying makes absolute sense. Though I think since demands here in the Middle East are so high, they will probably consider V8s for exports. I don't see how they could ignore such large segment of their market (Middle East). We pay inflated prices at the dealers for their vehicles (almost any car company here in Kuwait charges a high premium - Especially the Americans, costs atleast 20%-25% more expensive here). Then we pay extremely high costs at dealers for maintenance cause they keep trying to jerk us around with labor costs. We'd be too significant for them to ignore, I think so I'd imagine a V8 would still remain as long as there is a chunk in the world such as the Middle East who will demand it.

If I was Chrysler, I'd be smart about it. I'd set up locations and factories outside the US. But then again, this should have been done a long time ago and not during these hard times. lol then again this may just be my bias for my hemi love speaking.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:31 AM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

Eh, I'm not real broken up about it. I like the performance, but I appreciate performance with enough technology to deliver good economy more than performance that just comes from brute displacement.
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:17 PM
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Re: The "ECO" light makes me feel so good about myself

Austria? Really?? That surprises me. Don't know why I always thought they were from the states :-/

Swo3es. I think the reason for the underperformance of the current v8 is because they wanted to try and find a middle ground between the fuel economy and performance. I think they kinda half assed it on both scales of the spectrum. I'm alright with both but considering fuel price in Kuwait, I'd lean towards more performance but that's just my $0.05
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