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  #13  
Old 03-17-2013, 12:43 PM
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Re: To hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by padgett View Post
Was in traffic yesterday, mid-70s & windows open. Saw 215+ F at stoplight. Is too hot but factory does not turn fan on yet.

Anyone know of an aftermarket device that can turn fan on earlier, say 197F. Personally get bothered by temps over 200F.

ps at 215F the guage had not yet reached 1/2.

Why would you want your fans to come on earlier? The engineers designed the engine to run at certain temps. So no that is not "too hot". Just drive the Jeep and enjoy
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  #14  
Old 03-17-2013, 12:57 PM
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If engine temps are at 215, how does a 180 thermostat keep things cooler than a 195? Won't both thermostats be open at that temp?
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Old 03-17-2013, 01:19 PM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
Turning on the ac would increase coolant temp because the hot refrigerant needs to be cooled through the condenser which is in front of the radiator, although the fan needs to come on so it would accomplish turning the fan on at least.
I agree with this. With the caveat that my experience is on Subaru, not Jeep, we are talking two separate circuits here. Hot refrigerant and Hot coolant are two different circuits. The condenser is in front of the radiator, there is a cold side and a hot side to the HVAC system. But that is a parallel system to the the engine coolant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012 Summit View Post
I would think turning on the A-C would increase the coolant temperature on any vehicle. Please explain how running the AC will reduce coolant temps. Thanks
I am trying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ColdCase View Post
215F is relatively cool for todays engines, don't worry about it. You may just be a bit paranoid. You could try to put a lower T Thermostat in, but the lower temps will affect how much and when fuel is squirted, so your performance is not going to be optimum. I think your cats will run hotter on the richer mix and will burn out sooner, and there would be no affect on the reliability of other components. So if your goal is long life or reliability, you may be shooting yourself in the foot.

I think your best option is to add auxiliary cooling fans and turn them on in stop-go traffic.
I think the user may be a bit paranoid but I think a Colder Thermostat would serve him better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by loveracing1988 View Post
The compressor does not run all of the time but the heat it removes for the cabin has to go somewhere.
Actually heat is NOT removed from the cabin. Cold air is pushed through.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012 Summit View Post
That's what I was saying "I would think turning on the A-C would increase the coolant temperature on any vehicle. Please explain how running the AC will reduce coolant temps. Thanks"
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012 Summit View Post
No need to prove it for my sake. I already know for a fact that running the A-C will increase the coolant temperature. Running the heater will help reduce the coolant temps...
But let's keep it very simple. What I am saying here is that at least on Subarus when I turn on the AC, the engine temps go down because it will force the fans to run at all times. On a properly working system. They recommend to turn of the AC so that the load on the engine is diminished because ultimately the AC compressor is belt driven.

Here's pictures:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Capture.JPG (179.8 KB, 49 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Binder1.pdf (2.46 MB, 3 views)
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  #16  
Old 03-17-2013, 01:26 PM
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Re: To hot

(A-C 101)

Actually, the A-C system removes heat and moisture from the cabin air and the air is returned "cooled".

A little more explanation:

Air conditioners remove heat from indoor air and transfer it outdoors. Cool air is then returned to the cabin. The cycle continues until the indoor air reaches the “set point,” or the desired temperature on your thermostat. Cool refrigerant gas is pumped into the compressor where it is—you guessed it—compressed, which heats the refrigerant. The hot refrigerant gas then passes through the condenser coil, where it is cooled, and changes from a gas to a liquid. This liquid runs through an expansion device, which further cools the gas as it enters the evaporator coil. This cooler gas collects moisture (in the form of water beads on the outside evaporator coil surface) and heat from the air to be cooled. The cooled air is then returned to the cabin and the process repeats until the cabin temperature reaches the desired set point.
The compressor pumps and heats the refrigerant, increasing the temperature and pressure of the gas. The hot gas passes through coils, loses heat and condenses into a liquid. This liquid runs through an expansion valve and evaporates to become cold, low-pressure gas. The cold gas passes through a set of coils that cools the air. A fan blows the cool air into the cabin.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:31 PM
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Re: To hot

Really don't want to get in the middle of this........ but if you turn the A/C on while sitting in an idling WK2 that has coolant temps at 220*+ the fans will immediately turn on and the coolant temperature will decrease! Thats the way your WK2 works, as designed by the engineers who built it.

If you don't believe me, go out and try it in your driveway.
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Old 03-17-2013, 06:51 PM
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Re: To hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
Really don't want to get in the middle of this........ but if you turn the A/C on while sitting in an idling WK2 that has coolant temps at 220*+ the fans will immediately turn on and the coolant temperature will decrease! Thats the way your WK2 works, as designed by the engineers who built it.

If you don't believe me, go out and try it in your driveway.
My apologies to the OP, we sure highjacked your thread.

This is not a reliable test. The ambient temperature will play a big part in the results.

If the A-C condenser is mounted in front of the radiator, the fan will pull "hotter" than ambient temperature air (with A-C on) across the radiator and the engine cooling will be less efficient.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:43 PM
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Re: To hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012 Summit View Post
My apologies to the OP, we sure highjacked your thread.

This is not a reliable test. The ambient temperature will play a big part in the results.

If the A-C condenser is mounted in front of the radiator, the fan will pull "hotter" than ambient temperature air (with A-C on) across the radiator and the engine cooling will be less efficient.
Your missing the point, with coolant temps over 220* an idling WK2 will kick on the fans and lower the coolant temperature. All the time, every time!
Doesn't matter what the ambient temp is.
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Old 03-17-2013, 08:54 PM
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Re: To hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyh View Post
If engine temps are at 215, how does a 180 thermostat keep things cooler than a 195? Won't both thermostats be open at that temp?
Now that there is a good point... start thinking auxiliary fans....
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  #21  
Old 03-17-2013, 08:58 PM
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Re: To hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
Really don't want to get in the middle of this........ but if you turn the A/C on while sitting in an idling WK2 that has coolant temps at 220*+ the fans will immediately turn on and the coolant temperature will decrease! Thats the way your WK2 works, as designed by the engineers who built it.
And yet, the owner's manual says to shut the A/C off.

I guess only you and the engineers know about this.
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Old 03-17-2013, 09:06 PM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by bill_de View Post
And yet, the owner's manual says to shut the A/C off. Thats only for an overheated engine condition, with a malfunctioning cooling system, not during normal engine operation!

I guess only you and the engineers know about this.

Hey don't believe me.... what the hell do I know.

And no, not just me and the Chyrsler engineers know about this, everyone who has turned on the A/C under these conditions does as well.

Why don't you go sit in your idling WK2 with the A/C off, let it get good and hot & when the coolant temps reach 220* turn on the A/C.

Now listen for the fans to kick on and watch the coolant temperature go down! Now you will also know! Do it again just to be sure and get back to us all!
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  #23  
Old 03-17-2013, 09:29 PM
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Re: To hot

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
Really don't want to get in the middle of this........ but if you turn the A/C on while sitting in an idling WK2 that has coolant temps at 220*+ the fans will immediately turn on and the coolant temperature will decrease! Thats the way your WK2 works, as designed by the engineers who built it.

If you don't believe me, go out and try it in your driveway.

LOL we are the misunderstood ones here :-)))
We can all explain Boyle's law differently some more coherently copy-pasting than others. I posted the screenshot from Subaru's technical/service manual which clearly shows a relationship between A/C load and the engine cooling fans which is as simple as this: turn the car A/C on to force the fans to cycle - which will lower your coolant temps. The PDF has pictures with explanations through 2 drive cycles: stuck in traffic/idle as well as on the highway - with and/ without the A/C on. But again, that is on a properly working Subaru. Maybe the Jeep has it different but I doubt. I s'pose seeing is believing - so nay-Sayers should go in the driveway and check.

Of course the Owner's Manual will tell you to remove any load on your engine by stopping the A/C. Sure it makes sense, it is the more protective action to take. But that doesn't exclude the statement we are making. Another thing the Owner's Manual never says (especially on a turbocharged car) is to cool a properly working engine under load - but that is the proper way to do it. Everyone will run their car hot, tow, climb off-road, race the engine in high rpms and most people assume that they can come to a screeching halt and just turn the engine off. Well --- NO. You must allow some time* for the water pump/thermostat to cycle the hot coolant through the engine and remove some heat away from the engine block, turbo, transmission, etc. then turn the engine off. But everyone should do whatever they feel comfortable with including any and all technical solutions for solving overheating problems. Including adding Water Wetter to the coolant.
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  #24  
Old 03-17-2013, 11:44 PM
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Re: To hot

It is to laugh. The factory thermostat is a 195 so what is wrong with wanting to keep it under 200 ? I know the factory does not turn fans on until later but do you think that any company that would come up with a "switch pitch" oil pump might keep the cooling fans off just to save load ?

Personally I have been running computer cars in Florida with 180F thermostats and fans (dual) reprogrammed to come on at 185 for over two decades. Only outside effect I have seen is the a/c cools better and I conssitantly get better MPG than the EPA estimates. Oh and I cannot remember losing a fan belt or radiator hose.

Is another reason: I suspect that heat is a factor in the Pentastar head issue. I do have a lifetime warrenty (says to 2099) so is more of I have just found that running an engine about 10% cooler than the factory settings result in much longer life of everything under the hood (particularly rubber items).

Another factor is that the temperature on a thremostat is just where it begins to open. While a fast thermostat like a Stant Superstat (plug) opens in 3-5 degrees, a typical OEM thermostat takes more like 10-12 degrees to fully open so a 180 will open fully around 192.

OK question one: anyone know of a 180F thermostat for a Pentastar (and the four piece design makes it more difficult than a standard 44mm thermostat) ?

Question two: does anyone know of a seperate device that could attach to the upper radiator hose and turn the fan on when coolant is flowing and stopped at a light or in slow traffic ? (I may just install a toggle switch).

ps running an a/c compressor puts a load on an engine (once saw 10hp for an A6) which makes it generate more heat that must go somewhere. I suspect the main reason the fan comes on with the a/c is that you would not get any cooling at a stop light without. Turning the heater on full add a second small radiator with its own fan so can help an overtemp if not caused by low coolant.
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