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  #25  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:48 AM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by padgett View Post
It is to laugh. The factory thermostat is a 195 so what is wrong with wanting to keep it under 200 ? I know the factory does not turn fans on until later but do you think that any company that would come up with a "switch pitch" oil pump might keep the cooling fans off just to save load ?

Personally I have been running computer cars in Florida with 180F thermostats and fans (dual) reprogrammed to come on at 185 for over two decades. Only outside effect I have seen is the a/c cools better and I conssitantly get better MPG than the EPA estimates. Oh and I cannot remember losing a fan belt or radiator hose.

Is another reason: I suspect that heat is a factor in the Pentastar head issue. I do have a lifetime warrenty (says to 2099) so is more of I have just found that running an engine about 10% cooler than the factory settings result in much longer life of everything under the hood (particularly rubber items).

Another factor is that the temperature on a thremostat is just where it begins to open. While a fast thermostat like a Stant Superstat (plug) opens in 3-5 degrees, a typical OEM thermostat takes more like 10-12 degrees to fully open so a 180 will open fully around 192.

OK question one: anyone know of a 180F thermostat for a Pentastar (and the four piece design makes it more difficult than a standard 44mm thermostat) ?

Question two: does anyone know of a seperate device that could attach to the upper radiator hose and turn the fan on when coolant is flowing and stopped at a light or in slow traffic ? (I may just install a toggle switch).

ps running an a/c compressor puts a load on an engine (once saw 10hp for an A6) which makes it generate more heat that must go somewhere. I suspect the main reason the fan comes on with the a/c is that you would not get any cooling at a stop light without. Turning the heater on full add a second small radiator with its own fan so can help an overtemp if not caused by low coolant.
Nothing wrong will wanting to run a little cooler, especially in the Florida heat. Your points are valid and lower coolant temps would be beneficial to the long term life of your engine and most everything else under the hood.

Just don't go crazy, your WK2 was designed to operate in a chosen coolant temp range, too cold would be almost as bad as to hot. What you want is the ability to turn on the fans at a lower temp. than their programmed too right now. On my C4 Corvette this can be done with a lower auxillary fan coolant temp. switch. On a WK2 a tuner may be the only way to change these coolant fan temp. settings. I would look into that along with a lower temp thermostat that compliments the new lower fan settings.
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  #26  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:57 AM
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Re: To hot



AC will push heat toward the coolant. Seems like the interaction argument is being crafted a little too fluidly...
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  #27  
Old 03-18-2013, 05:06 AM
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Re: To hot

Thermostats are there, not too keep the engine cool, but to make sure it reaches a predetermined minimum temperature. I doubt that the minimum temperatures aren't just set with the roll of the dice. At least I hope not.

Just sayin'
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  #28  
Old 03-18-2013, 05:49 AM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by andyh View Post
If engine temps are at 215, how does a 180 thermostat keep things cooler than a 195? Won't both thermostats be open at that temp?
Theoretically, the 180 deg. t-stat will help because it will open sooner than the 195 t-stat and allow the coolant to flow through the radiator and be cooled. The cooling system can cool 180 degree coolant more efficiently than 195 degree coolant.
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  #29  
Old 03-18-2013, 06:08 AM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
Your missing the point, with coolant temps over 220* an idling WK2 will kick on the fans and lower the coolant temperature. All the time, every time!
Doesn't matter what the ambient temp is.
With coolant temps over 220 degrees, the fan will already be on regardless whether or not the A-C is turned on. Your theory is flawed. Turning on the A-C will cause an additional load on the engine and and also decrease the efficiency of the cooling system.

Under these conditions, turning on the A-C will only cause a more severe overheating condition. Turning off the A-C will help will help alleviate the overheating condition.

I enjoy a good debate, but we can't debate the laws of physics.

Physics tell us that you can't "make" coolness. You can't destroy heat, but you can move it around. The compressor makes one side cooler by making the other side even hotter; it moves the heat. This heat is fed into the engine's cooling system.
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  #30  
Old 03-18-2013, 10:35 AM
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Re: To hot

I've been following this thread since its inception. Interesting arguments, and data, although I find a lot of it above my pay grade. But I have to ask, don't you guys trust the engineers who designed the cooling system?
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  #31  
Old 03-18-2013, 10:38 AM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by jacko15 View Post
I've been following this thread since its inception. Interesting arguments, and data, although I find a lot of it above my pay grade. But I have to ask, don't you guys trust the engineers who designed the cooling system?
I have no problems with the engineers design.
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  #32  
Old 03-18-2013, 11:35 AM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by 2012 Summit View Post
With coolant temps over 220 degrees, the fan will already be on regardless whether or not the A-C is turned on. Your theory is flawed. Turning on the A-C will cause an additional load on the engine and and also decrease the efficiency of the cooling system.
No you are incorrect, at idle with no heat or A/C on your WK2 will reach coolant temps. over 220*. Why don't you try it before you post incorrect assumptions!
Under these conditions, turning on the A-C will only cause a more severe overheating condition. Turning off the A-C will help will help alleviate the overheating condition.

I enjoy a good debate, but we can't debate the laws of physics.

Physics tell us that you can't "make" coolness. You can't destroy heat, but you can move it around. The compressor makes one side cooler by making the other side even hotter; it moves the heat. This heat is fed into the engine's cooling system.
Its not a theory. And I'm not debating the laws of physics, I'm telling you how the control system of your WK2 is designed to work.

It's a fact, again I ask why don't you go out in your driveway and try it! Really.... give it a shot, and you would see for yourself and end this argument!

I'm not "making coolness" I'm activating the engines cooling fans to lower the coolant temp. You can manually activate these fans by turning on the A/C....why can't you understand that? The increased airflow over the radiator and condensor is what lowers the coolant temp.

Yes if the fans were already on the coolant wouldn't be at 220* AND yes activating the A/C does create an additional load on the system which will eventually introduce more heat into the coolant....... BUT turning on the A/C before the system kicks them on automatically will activate the fans at whatever the coolant temp. is at now (as long as it's not below a predetermined coolant temp.) and the system as designed, would begin to lower that coolant temp with the increased airflow across the radiator and condensor.

One more thing if your running a coolant temp. of 220* plus and the cooling fans are all on and the coolant temp. doesn't go down you have a problem with your cooling system. It obviously isn't working as desiged, and turning off the A/C and or turning on the heat would be the correct thing to do to lower the coolant temps. as much as possible before you bring it in to get looked at!
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  #33  
Old 03-18-2013, 12:14 PM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
Its not a theory. And I'm not debating the law of physics, I'm telling you how the control system of your WK2 is designed to work.

It's a fact, again I ask why don't you go out in your driveway and try it! Really.... give it a shot, and you would see for yourself and end this argument!

I'm not "making coolness" I'm activating the engines cooling fans to lower the coolant temp. You can manually activate these fans by turning on the A/C....why can't you understand that? The increased airflow over the radiator and condensor is what lowers the coolant temp.

Yes if the fans were already on the coolant wouldn't be at 220* AND yes activating the A/C does create an additional load on the system which will eventually introduce more heat into the coolant....... BUT turning on the A/C before the system kicks them on automatically will activate the fans at whatever the coolant temp. is at now (as long as it's not below a predetermined coolant temp.) and the system as designed, would begin to lower that coolant temp with the increased airflow across the radiator and condensor.

One more thing if your running a coolant temp. of 220* plus and the cooling fans are all on and the coolant temp. doesn't go down you have a problem with your cooling system. It obviously isn't working as desiged, and turning off the A/C and or turning on the heat would be the correct thing to do to lower the coolant temps. as much as possible before you bring it in to get looked at!
Let's quote your original post:

"Really don't want to get in the middle of this........ but if you turn the A/C on while sitting in an idling WK2 that has coolant temps at 220*+ the fans will immediately turn on and the coolant temperature will decrease! Thats the way your WK2 works, as designed by the engineers who built it."

That's simply not true since the fan is already on. The temps are likely to increase by turning the A-C on. That's all I ever stated. For some reason, you want to continue to twist your statement until you feel it is correct (it ain't going to happen).

I am not going to argue the fact that the fan comes on when the coolant temperature rises above a preset temperature. That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing whether or not activating the A-C will reduce coolant temps. This is where the law of physics applies.

"If you don't believe me, go out and try it in your driveway. "

There is no way for me to try this since my cooling system is working properly. The fan will be on before the coolant temp. reaches 220.
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  #34  
Old 03-18-2013, 01:42 PM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by 2012 Summit View Post
Let's quote your original post:

"Really don't want to get in the middle of this........ but if you turn the A/C on while sitting in an idling WK2 that has coolant temps at 220*+ the fans will immediately turn on and the coolant temperature will decrease! Thats the way your WK2 works, as designed by the engineers who built it."

That's simply not true since the fan is already on. The temps are likely to increase by turning the A-C on. That's all I ever stated. For some reason, you want to continue to twist your statement until you feel it is correct (it ain't going to happen). NO THE FANS ARE NOT ALREADY ON AT IDLE!!

I am not going to argue the fact that the fan comes on when the coolant temperature rises above a preset temperature. That's not what we were discussing. We were discussing whether or not activating the A-C will reduce coolant temps. This is where the law of physics applies.

"If you don't believe me, go out and try it in your driveway. "

There is no way for me to try this since my cooling system is working properly. The fan will be on before the coolant temp. reaches 220.
NO INCORRECT AGAIN! YOU WILL HIT TEMPS IN EXCESS OF 220*AT IDLE EVEN WITH A PERFECTLY OPERATING COOLING SYSTEM! ONCE AGAIN TRY IT!!


Yes please reread what I have posted!!

For the last time!

Go sit in your 2012 Summit turn it on with the heat & A/C off, let it idle for 35 ~40 minutes. Your coolant temps will go over 220*!! Yes even with a perfectly operating cooling system you will hit over 220* TRY IT BEFORE YOU ARGUE!!!

My 2012 Summit (5.7 Hemi) hit 224* today at 42* ambient temp. after 33 minuted at idle in my driveway.

When I hit the A/C button at 224*,temp control set to 60*, the fans kicked on and the coolant temps. dropped to 210* in abount a minute and a half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a theory, not my imagination, just the facts! I manually activated the cooling fans by turning on the A/C at 224* before the control system built into my WK2 could activate them.

I invite any and all forum members to also try this and end this debate once and for all!
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Old 03-18-2013, 02:01 PM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by Raptor View Post
Yes please reread what I have posted!!

For the last time!

Go sit in your 2012 Summit turn it on with the heat & A/C off, let it idle for 35 ~40 minutes. Your coolant temps will go over 220*!! Yes even with a perfectly operating cooling system you will hit over 220* TRY IT BEFORE YOU ARGUE!!!

My 2012 Summit (5.7 Hemi) hit 224* today at 42* ambient temp.after 33 minuted at idle in my driveway.

When I hit the A/C button at 224* the fans kicked on and the coolant temps. dropped to 210* in abount a minute and a half!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not a theory, not my imagination, just the facts!

I invite any and all forum members to also try and end this debate once and for all!
Well yeah, you were pulling 42 degree air across the condenser and radiator plus the fact that there was minimal load on the A-C at 42 degree ambient.

Try your test again at 95 degree ambient temp. and report back to all forum members. You will prove to yourself that your prior statement "Your missing the point, with coolant temps over 220* an idling WK2 will kick on the fans and lower the coolant temperature. All the time, every time! Doesn't matter what the ambient temp is." is completely incorrect.

I'll be honest with you, I think at this point in time you are embarrassing yourself and I choose to no longer debate.

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  #36  
Old 03-18-2013, 02:15 PM
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Re: To hot

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Originally Posted by 2012 Summit View Post
Well yeah, you were pulling 42 degree air across the condenser and radiator plus the fact that there was minimal load on the A-C at 42 degree ambient.

Do you think if it was 95* ambient temp. and I was pulling 95* air across the radiator and condensor the coolant temps. wouldn't decrease?

Try your test again at 95 degree ambient temp. and report back to all forum members. You will prove to yourself that your prior statement "Your missing the point, with coolant temps over 220* an idling WK2 will kick on the fans and lower the coolant temperature. All the time, every time! Doesn't matter what the ambient temp is." is completely incorrect.

No it's not! At 95* ambient temp. it wouldn't take as long for your WK2 to reach 220*+ at idle & you could do my real world test in alot less time! Once again I challenge you to try it!

I'll be honest with you, I think at this point in time you are embarrassing yourself and I choose to no longer debate.

Peace
I'm embarrassing myself?

Hows that?

Why don't you do what I suggest and perform my real world test with your Summit in your driveway???

Report back to us what you found and then tell me who's embarrassed!

How long do you think it will be before another forum member trys my real world test and reports back the facts??

Yea I think if I were you I would also "choose to no longer debate"
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