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  #13  
Old 06-24-2013, 06:02 AM
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Re: To Those Afraid Of Having Problems...

Glad to Hear Jacko, As you stated on your return, you were one of those people not here on the Forum as you were out enjoying your jeep!!
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  #14  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:17 AM
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Re: To Those Afraid Of Having Problems...

34,500 miles at 28 months and no issues except missing stitch in front center armrest. They replaced armrest. And 2 thumbs up for Chrysler and my dealer () for replacing cracked windshield after the warranty was over.

I also want to add that only a very small percentage of WK2 owners are on this forum and one of the main uses of a forum is to find solutions for problems. This vehicle is no better or worse than any other vehicle.
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  #15  
Old 06-24-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by AAAA View Post
34,500 miles at 28 months and no issues except missing stitch in front center armrest. They replaced armrest. And 2 thumbs up for Chrysler and my dealer () for replacing cracked windshield after the warranty was over.

I also want to add that only a very small percentage of WK2 owners are on this forum and one of the main uses of a forum is to find solutions for problems. This vehicle is no better or worse than any other vehicle.
I wish to second this. Every vehicle has issues no matter what brand. If you look at the number of Jeep GCs produced to the number of problems it is very low.

Certainly some of the dealers I visit have had no concerns at all (they can't lie to me on this most of them I spend time working with Service directly)
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  #16  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:04 AM
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Re: To Those Afraid Of Having Problems...

Jeep has certainly improved in quality with the JNAP shutting down for a month to install new robotics and re-establishing assembly procedures for the WK2. Toyota appears to be slipping and cutting corners. They are not as good as they were and US cars are not as bad as they were. We will see glitches and lemons every so often--small consolation to the owner who shelled out big bucks for something that was built on a Friday afternoon at 4:30 pm on a three day weekend by some drunk and stoned "don't give a crap" UAW worker. We only hope that Jeep continues to keep a close eye on QC and ensure that proper QC techniques are applied if they want to meet and compete with the likes of MB, Porsche, VW, and Audi. They're headed in the right direction, but vigilance must always be high to catch any back sliding.
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  #17  
Old 06-24-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ms.annthrope View Post
Jeep has certainly improved in quality with the JNAP shutting down for a month to install new robotics and re-establishing assembly procedures for the WK2. Toyota appears to be slipping and cutting corners. They are not as good as they were and US cars are not as bad as they were. We will see glitches and lemons every so often--small consolation to the owner who shelled out big bucks for something that was built on a Friday afternoon at 4:30 pm on a three day weekend by some drunk and stoned "don't give a crap" UAW worker. We only hope that Jeep continues to keep a close eye on QC and ensure that proper QC techniques are applied if they want to meet and compete with the likes of MB, Porsche, VW, and Audi. They're headed in the right direction, but vigilance must always be high to catch any back sliding.
I am not sure the UAW worker comment is needed. If someone on the line isn't doing their job I don't believe the Union should protect that person but certainly membership does not define the problem. I think there has been a fairly big change in thinking from the workers on the floor since the issues of the last few years. MOST take great pride in what they do so careful how you lump them together.

For the record I have never belonged to a union but I also know that the unions don't define the people. There are always exceptions but I would commend the JNAP folks generally. I am also not saying this because I feel like buttering anyone up. I am driving a 2011 Durango and every issue I have had has been with 3rd party part like a radio or a shock and NOTHING to do with workmanship. Actually I am very impressed with the build quality.
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  #18  
Old 06-24-2013, 11:00 AM
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Re: To Those Afraid Of Having Problems...

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Originally Posted by Willx View Post
Actually I am very impressed with the build quality.
I'll second that!
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  #19  
Old 06-24-2013, 11:24 AM
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Re: To Those Afraid Of Having Problems...

Anecdotal evidence and personal experience are useless in regards to determining relative quality because ownership is subjective in too many factors and based on too small a sample to be statistically significant.

Consider that many people still believe any Toyota has a higher quality than any American car despite the fact that the actual numbers show American cars in most cases across most brands have less defects both initially and long term and it should be noted you cant get those long term numbers without putting in the years. They are the result of a number of years of ongoing improved design, manufacturing processes, and quality control. Still a reputation is hard to live down and is integral to a individuals perception of anything. You can see this play out when a Toyota owner will have a problem and say that its just a fluke where an owner of an American brand with the same problem may see it as not being a fluke and an example of poor American build quality. The numbers don't support either viewpoint but the perception of quality has not yet caught up to the reality.

Then there is personal experience. I had a 2003 Dodge diesel, a truck at the time that was well below the quality of a contemporary Toyota based on hard numbers. My experience was that about 6 weeks after I got the truck a headlight went out. That was the extent of my problems for 8 odd years of ownership and no matter what numbers I read my brain tells me that the truck was extremely reliable and I was very happy with it. Right now I have a car in the garage that has faced a number of issues which I know from reading hard numbers lie well beyond the expected and that the cars real numbers are relatively good. Yet I cant escape the feeling that the car is unreliable because for me in my little piece of the world, it is unreliable. The objective data cannot overcome my singular experience.

I've already been long winded enough I'm thinking. What I'm trying to say is that as a buyer only the objective numbers have real meaning in terms of how likely any of us are to face problems during our ownership of a vehicle.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:09 PM
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Re: To Those Afraid Of Having Problems...

Unfortunately, these guys probably built the trouble some GCs.



Di they get fired or were thry union protected?
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  #21  
Old 06-24-2013, 12:33 PM
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Unfortunately, these guys probably built the trouble some GCs.



Di they get fired or were thry union protected?
What I was saying is yes there are always bad apples. Don't label the group based on these people.
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Old 06-24-2013, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by crabman View Post
Anecdotal evidence and personal experience are useless in regards to determining relative quality because ownership is subjective in too many factors and based on too small a sample to be statistically significant.

I've already been long winded enough I'm thinking. What I'm trying to say is that as a buyer only the objective numbers have real meaning in terms of how likely any of us are to face problems during our ownership of a vehicle.
I appreciate your insight and yes single momentary experiences will certainly decide perception of quality. I on the other hand drive all kinds of different vehicles all of the time and certainly notice trends. My favorite gauge of this is rental cars. I use them lots and you will often see the same thing come up over and over in the same vehicles.

My comment was just to clarify a very personal feeling about assembly of auto vehicle though. What I was arguing is because although people are having issues with a radio or an air-conditioning problem doesn't mean it has anything to do with the factory as part of the blame. Maybe they did but not likely. The only common thing I am seeing about assembly quality is the tailgate alignment. JNAP didn't build the radios, design the software or engineer the product for that matter.

All I want to put to rest is the guys on the assembly line clearly have an effect on quality but not most of the problems people are talking about. If someone wants to get mad about a vibration at highway speed that developed 1000 miles into the ownership of the vehicle there are only two people I can think of on this (unless it is a rim which doesn't happen much). Either call Goodyear or blame the accountants and or engineers who chose that tire.

Fairly sure Chevyboy couldn't fix that problem no matter how hard he tried.

So yes there have been some quality issues but not many of them where the "bums at JNAP" to put it lightly. I just don't like seeing someone get pushed under the bus when it is not them that's all. Sure blame them for the tailgate issue but I still bet that is one person (or a machine that they maintain or operate) not everybody who works there.

Just my 2 cents and again all IMO.
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  #23  
Old 06-24-2013, 02:14 PM
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Re: To Those Afraid Of Having Problems...

I've been VERY fortunate with my last 3 vehicles: I had a 2005 4Runner that was awesome until some clown decided to total it for me (he cut across a divided highway when I was about 200 feet from him when I was going 70 mph.)
My current 2010 laredo has been very reliable- couldn't be happier. My tires are even exceeding my expectations. I already have 70K on them and they appear to have another 20K left.
I still have my 94 toyota 4x4 pickup. Remarkably bullet-proof!
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Old 06-24-2013, 02:21 PM
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Re: To Those Afraid Of Having Problems...

Quote:
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What I'm trying to say is that as a buyer only the objective numbers have real meaning in terms of how likely any of us are to face problems during our ownership of a vehicle.
Statistical analysis of any data set can be skewed to make people see what ever the analyst wants them to see. I know, I studied the methods myself. Anecdotal evidence and personal experience are pretty much useless also. Your experience will almost never match the experience of someone else. Your experience will also almost never match what the "objective numbers" predict. Life is a crap shoot. Over analyzing data can lead you nowhere slowly. What I'm trying to say is there is no such thing as a sure thing. Highly engineered systems with multiple redundant back-ups still fail. Spend your money on what suits your fancy, and if it breaks, get it fixed. Reliability is important, but far from the most important reason for making a purchase. Spend your money on something you really like, and you'll be happy even if it needs the occasional repair.
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