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  #193  
Old 01-05-2015, 05:27 PM
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Re: Towing thread

Tongue height does not matter much for a single axle trailer but can be critical for a dual axle (and with near 7k gross, I'll bet that's a tandem).

Trailer manufacturer can tell you what it is supposed to be but I'd suspect a WK2 with factory hitch would need between a 4" and 8" drop.

And WDHs are not well understood but no weight (other than the hitch) is being added or removed. Instead it applies a torque between the TV and the trailer, one that changes as the vertical angle between the TV and the trailer changes.

The effect is to transfer the effective load from the Tow Vehicle's rear axle to the trailer and to a lesser extent to the TV's front axle. Important thing is to think of it as a pair of rotary forces. This makes the tongue height in a dual axle trailer even more important so that the load is evenly distributed between the axles after the WDH is applied.

This is where a really good TPMS that monitors the trailer tires' pressure and temperature is critical since an imbalance will show up quickly once under way.

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  #194  
Old 01-06-2015, 10:48 AM
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Re: Towing thread

We tow a Lance 1685 dual axle travel trailer with our 14 JGC Overland Diesel (Factory tow package) and use an Anderson "No Sway" WDH.
Andersen 'No-Sway' Weight Distribution Hitch
The Anderson is light weight, easy to install and very easy to set-up and use. Much easier (and lighter!) than the spring bar systems. When setting up a WDH, you should put the Jeep into tire change mode to ensure that you can properly set up the WDH loading. FYI - We have a 4" drop stinger with the Andersen and there are no issues with the QL at all when cruising over 55.

I also went with the Tuson DirecLink brake controller.
DirecLink Brake Controller - DirecLink.com
It stows away underneath the dash and the actual user interface looks like a CB handset. This is probably the nicest and easiest Trailer brake controller I've ever used. No drilling required! The best part is that it works in concert with the Jeeps braking system, taking a feed from the OBDII port.

To monitor the trailer, I installed a Dill Trailer TPMS.
Trailer TPMS
It shows all 4 pressures (in sequence) and also temperatures. A local shop put the tire TPMS sensors in, the actual set-up inside the Jeep is a breeze!

After a few thousand miles, I am very impressed with everything I've installed. A lot of my research information I gleaned from fellow JGC owners and also from a few Lance Trailer owners.

Happy to help anyone interested in my set up .
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  #195  
Old 01-06-2015, 12:33 PM
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Re: Towing thread

That's some good info! I dig the Anderson too. Keeps an extra 50 pounds off the tongue. Which is something people don't often take into account when calculating tongue weight!
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  #196  
Old 01-06-2015, 05:38 PM
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Re: Towing thread

I am towing with a 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee V6 - It towed great with the Equalizer 1k/10k w/ Sway Control. Of course you can feel it's back there and it spent more time in 4-6 gear instead of the normal 7th - 8th gear cruising but it handled the hills and grades well. It feels very comfortable so I'm really happy.

Towing a 2013 Forest River Rockwood Roo (about 4100lbs loaded fully)

Few more pictures of the truck towing and the interior location of the Prodigy P3 brake controller.

I drilled a hole in the tray to run the cables in the back of the tray.

Equalizer 1k/10k Weight Distribution/Sway Control Bar

It towed great. More time spent in 4-6th instead of the normal 8th gear cruising, but it was smooth.







Ended up replacing the crap mirrors with a set of Mckesh mirrors. Much better, but sometimes make noise.

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  #197  
Old 01-06-2015, 08:47 PM
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Re: Towing thread

My TV is a 2015 GC LTD with 3.0 Diesel with tow package but no Air Suspension. I am doing research for a Travel Trailer so started browsing this thread and have a question: Assume that I keep the the weight of the trailer (dry weight + fluids + cargo) to 5000 to 6000lbs range and use a WDH, what is the length of TTs that people are towing/have towed with the Jeep?

The wheelbase of the Jeep is 114.8" and RV forums suggest a TT length of 20' for 110" wheelbase and add a foot for every additional 4" of TV wheelbase. This is limiting, hence my question to a larger audience who have real life experiences
Thanks in advance for your responses.
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  #198  
Old 01-07-2015, 09:00 AM
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Re: Towing thread

VAH5708,
Regarding TT's, it really depends on what will work for you. We went with Lance, which make a "higher end" line of lightweight trailers that really maximize space utilization. We fully optioned ours and when loaded up (including 2 batteries and 2 full propane tanks) weighs under 4800lbs and that includes 2/3 (30 gallons) of a tank of fresh water!

Our Model 1685 is 21' TOTAL length (coupler to rear bumper), has a tremendous amount of storage plus it has a full size queen bed in it, although SWMBO has to climb over me to get to her side !

Livin' Lite also has a line of higher end lightweight trailers, Keystone RV also has a good line as well as Forest River (see doofoo's post).

As Shannon posted, you will need AT LEAST 10 percent of the tongue weight and sometimes upto15 is also fine (subject to tow vehicle restrictions of course), on your ball.

Most manufacturers require a WDH on any trailer above 5000lbs or 500lb Tongue Weight. We installed the Andersen WDH as ours is "around" 5000lbs (and can reach that capacity if we loaded it up or didn't empty our tanks) but the hitch weight is definitely over the 500lb mark.

Remember when loading it up to also watch your Gross Vehicle Weight Rating......which is 1170lbs on our 2014 JGC Overland Diesel. You will need to calculate weight of occupants plus "stuff in the Jeep" together with the hitch weight. So you see, WDH's are very important for proper loading and weight distribution!
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  #199  
Old 01-07-2015, 10:22 AM
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Re: Towing thread

Thanks for the information. I looked at the Lance but did not like the construction but since my question was about length, I'll not go down a path into a discussion on trailer mfgs . I am looking at a trailer length (from tow hitch to back of trailer) around 24 to 27' but don't want to end up with the tail wagging the dog situation.
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  #200  
Old 01-07-2015, 01:20 PM
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Re: Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by philbytx View Post
VAH5708,

As Shannon posted, you will need AT LEAST 10 percent of the tongue weight (15 is good!) on your ball.

.......Gross Vehicle Weight Rating......which is 1170lbs on our 2014 JGC Overland Diesel. You will need to calculate weight of occupants plus "stuff in the Jeep" together with the hitch weight.
I would hesitate to go 15% unless one or more water tanks is in front of the axles. I might consider approaching 15% with it (and the propane tanks) filled. Even then, it's usually only 500 lbs or so in the fresh tank. It's been a while, but an old 32' I used to tow (with an F-350) was 9% dry with no propane tanks or batteries and 12% wet w/ gear, full tanks and batteries. Of course, if you don't feel like it tows funny then why change it.
Oh, and do you mean 11,700 pounds Gross COMBINED Weight Rating?
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  #201  
Old 01-07-2015, 01:55 PM
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Re: Towing thread

Thanks, I've changed my original to post to reflect 10 to 15 percent with exception of course!


And no, that is the ACTUAL carrying capacity of our tow vehicle, being the sum of actual vehicle weight plus allowable manufacturer load.

And try to find a GCWR on any SUV these days!!!

10 to 15 percent is almost the norm for towing these days, subject, of course, the the allowable hitch weight of the tow vehicle!

VAH5708,
You pays yer money and yer takes your choice.


We decided on the route of getting a TT that was perfect for two and, when maxed out, was around the same weight as our TV. A good WDH/Anti-Sway hitch will usually keep the tail from wagging the dog plus the JGC has an anti sway built into it.


Its like bloody alchemy trying to work out exactly what's what when looking at manufacturer figures (or lack thereof!) and towing recommendations.


Our Jeep/Lance combo works great for us and we don't even know its behind our JGC Diesel, except when we look in the rearview mirror LOL !
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  #202  
Old 01-07-2015, 02:40 PM
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Re: Towing thread

My TT is 19'10" towing length and about the same FA as the Jeep when folded. Note that every year's owner's manual has a maximum frontal area for trailers and for 2014 that is 55 sq ft (about 7' x8' ).

Unfolded (all hard sides/ no canvas) the living area is 24' long with the slide. Tows very nicely at 65 mph. See .sig for picture folded.
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  #203  
Old 01-07-2015, 04:53 PM
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Re: Towing thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by philbytx View Post
And no, that is the ACTUAL carrying capacity of our tow vehicle, being the sum of actual vehicle weight plus allowable manufacturer load.

And try to find a GCWR on any SUV these days!!!



Its like bloody alchemy trying to work out exactly what's what when looking at manufacturer figures (or lack thereof!) and towing recommendations.

Ah, the CARGO capacity! Gotcha! And a big +1 to the dark art of manufacturers figures.

FWIW, from C&D for the my Overland:
WEIGHTS

Curb weight — 5,304 pounds
 (as tested)
Tow rating — 7,200 pounds

Gross vehicle weight rating — 6,800 pounds

Gross combined weight rating — 12,204 pounds

Of course, the cargo capacity is the GVWR- actual curb weight so it will change from model to model.

For those reading along and who may be confused:
Curb weight= weight of the vehicle as you normally drive (full of fluids and 1 driver)
Gross weight (GVWR)= maximum the vehicle is allowed to weigh in total (Curb weight + family, gear, animals and whatever else you put in the back) NOTE: the tongue weight of a trailer counts toward this total, as does the weight of your hitch.
Gross combined weight rating (GCWR)= maximum the vehicle and trailer (together) is allowed to weigh. This includes all the "stuff" you bring with (food, water, ice, gear, people, pets, etc)

So you can see that, in my case, I can NOT actually tow 7200 lbs with my GC. Curb weight + "max" towing capacity = 12504 lbs. A couple hundred OVER what my GCWR is allowed. My true towing capacity is about 6700. Even less if I put people and stuff in the Jeep. Probably only the base model with a Hemi and the tow package can safely may out to a 7200 pound trailer.
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  #204  
Old 01-07-2015, 09:01 PM
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Re: Towing thread

FYI folks - The definition of Curb weight can be different between the US and the EU.

Generally, Curb weight in the US is the vehicle with full fluids, including full gas tank ONLY. In the EU, it CAN be quoted with a 75kg (roughly 165lbs) driver included, as per certain EU directives.

So, in essence, in the USA Curb weight is quoted as the vehicle with no passengers or luggage in it!!

Yeah....as I said earlier, bloody alchemy is right!
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