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  #13  
Old 02-13-2013, 01:42 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

There's really no hope with the air suspension on the Overland. I had mine on 3 wheels on a curve in town one day. Scared me.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:44 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

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Originally Posted by jgc4ever View Post
There's really no hope with the air suspension on the Overland. I had mine on 3 wheels on a curve in town one day. Scared me.
What about an SRT rear sway bar and F&R Bwoody sway bar links?

If you're legitimately concerned about your safety, what's $400 for a few products that are getting really good reviews?
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:45 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

The 20s don't improve road feel or anything like that, they just have a little less cushion.

The Jeep is a great vehicle, but not that sort of vehicle. It's a comfortable, floaty, numb vehicle designed for cruising around town, not attacking corners. It's not the worst of the SUVs out there, but it's also not the best. You're never going to get that sort of road feel and communication out of the vehicle, even the SRT8 doesn't communicate like you're expecting. With these vehicles, you drive them and plow through corners despite their size and heft. They're never going to feel like a nimble little sports car because a) they were designed with the exact opposite purpose in mind (to shield the driver from road imperfections and provide a wonderful ride) and b) they're massive.

The thing about the Cayenne GTS is that its more about a enjoyable experience than actual performance. It's down on hp to the Jeep by a lot, the Turbo and Turbo S are the real performance Cayennes.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:01 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

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Originally Posted by Andoskyy View Post
What about an SRT rear sway bar and F&R Bwoody sway bar links?

If you're legitimately concerned about your safety, what's $400 for a few products that are getting really good reviews?
Good point. Didn't know about the good reviews. Hadn't thought about it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 03:24 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

this will get you started. BWoody Sway Links Install w/Pics & Impressions

do an advanced search "titles only" on "bwoody" and you'll have a good idea of what to expect.

Info and reviews on the STR sway is a little harder to come by. Page 3 and 4 here show a few people happy with the results. I bet both the sway and the links together would make a great difference. SRT sway bars.

If all else fails, give me a few months to get my '14 and another month or so to install, and I'll let you know how both these mods work
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:27 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

I suspect adding that stuffer suspension will just increase the ease of exceeding the traction of the tires. Add in the fact that you will have stiff sway bars, but not so stiff springs, you may completely upset the balance of the suspension.

If you have the air suspension, you're going to make it even worse, because you're going to have a suspension that loses spring rate when you put it in sport mode, but you've firmed up the sway bars going the other way.

Probably the best modification you could make is understanding the limitations of the vehicle so you don't drive it in an unsafe manner.
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Old 02-14-2013, 06:48 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

I know. Thanks for the response. I had no intention of modifying any of the suspension, sway-bars or anything else under there.
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Old 02-14-2013, 07:33 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
I suspect adding that stuffer suspension will just increase the ease of exceeding the traction of the tires. Add in the fact that you will have stiff sway bars, but not so stiff springs, you may completely upset the balance of the suspension.

If you have the air suspension, you're going to make it even worse, because you're going to have a suspension that loses spring rate when you put it in sport mode, but you've firmed up the sway bars going the other way.

Probably the best modification you could make is understanding the limitations of the vehicle so you don't drive it in an unsafe manner.
Unless your tires are squealing or breaking loose during slow cornering, you're not coming close to the limitations of tire traction.

Sway bar links won't change a thing with the suspension. They merely take up the "slop" in the bushings.

You don't have any actual evidence that a stiffer sway bar will change any driving dynamics with air suspension....nor do I have any evidence that it's perfectly OK...as I've never installed them on a vehicle with air suspension...as I doubt you have either.

Sway bars/links make a very noticeable difference from 2-100+ mph. I've done them on 3 personal vehicles as well as friend's vehicles....you don't need to push any limits to enjoy their benefits.
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Old 02-14-2013, 08:26 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andoskyy View Post
Unless your tires are squealing or breaking loose during slow cornering, you're not coming close to the limitations of tire traction.

Sway bar links won't change a thing with the suspension. They merely take up the "slop" in the bushings.

You don't have any actual evidence that a stiffer sway bar will change any driving dynamics with air suspension....nor do I have any evidence that it's perfectly OK...as I've never installed them on a vehicle with air suspension...as I doubt you have either.

Sway bars/links make a very noticeable difference from 2-100+ mph. I've done them on 3 personal vehicles as well as friend's vehicles....you don't need to push any limits to enjoy their benefits.
You clearly have no understanding of how a suspension works. Allow me to go into a drawn out explanation of the parts in question.

First we'll start with the sway bars. They are intended to reduce body roll, by acting as a spring between the two sides of the car. When you turn, one side of the vehicle goes up, and the other goes down. This twists the anti roll bars (same thing as sway bars - just different names), and the amount they resist the twist is what their spring rate from side to side is.

The sway bar endlinks attach the sway bars to the axles (which are . Again, they serve to allow the spring rate from side to side to be maintained. They are NOT bushings, changing your bushings out to something stiffer (poly for example) is typically done at the same time as end links, but they have very different effects and purposes.

The bushings are placed at the junction between the body and the endlinks, and are typically going to have a little bit of a spring rate to them, especially rubber ones. People will switch them out to a poly bushing which has a much higher spring rate, which essentially means that your steering will feel more "direct" because there's not as much compression on them when you start to turn. Rubber bushings will have a little give and then will fully compress, softening your feel of turning (and in many cases, helping to keep poor drivers that overcorrect from hurting themselves).

So now that we know what these parts do, we can start to understand why having soft actual springs, with high spring rates on our sway bars can be a problem. First of all, when we stiffen that bar up, we now have less body roll and side to side weight transfer. In a light vehicle designed for sport, that's a good thing, it gives us more confidence in the turns. But for a large heavy vehicle, that stiffer bar will give us too much confidence, and will actually promote the lifting of the inside rear wheel. If you look at a lot of older GTIs, they had stiffer rear sway bars to induce oversteer into them, when you entered a corner fast and took it hard, the inside rear wheel would lift off the ground and this loss of grip would induce oversteer into the FWD vehicle. In a RWD vehicle, this is HUGELY unsafe, especially if you don't have a real limited slip differential.

Pairing this effect with soft springs will make this effect more prominent, and more dangerous. And keep in mind that since we've lowered the side to side weight transfer, we've also increased our risk of rollover, as now the inside side of the vehicle has more force acting on it trying to push it against where you want it to go, meaning more of that high center of gravity wants to go the other way even if it means going up and over and rolling a few times.

Bottom line, the Jeep is not a sports car. It is a tall, heavy, high center of gravity machine that took a massive amount of engineering for the SRT guys to make perform and drive sporty. There's a reason the SRT is like $20k more, and it's not because their slightly larger Hemi costs that much more, or their body kit costs that much more, etc. There's a lot of guys that are very well educated in engineering and physics that work very hard to make the SRT do things it shouldn't be able to do. Adding a few parts here and there is NOT going to give you the same effect, and will instead likely make your vehicle less safe.

EDIT: And tires squealing is a sign that you're losing traction. As speeds go up, the lateral forces go up, and it's harder for the tires to keep hold. Just because your tires don't make noises at low speeds does not mean they can hold traction at higher speeds. In a lot of non performance tires, there is no linear breakaway point either, when they start squealing, you've lost traction or are about to completely lose it. Performance tires tend to try to give you a linear amount of traction so that when you hear the squealing, you've got a little more room.
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Old 02-14-2013, 10:15 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

Oh this is funny. The 2013 adjusted highway rating (EPA detail spreadsheet) for a 2WD V6 is 23.4287. They round everything below .5 down so it became 23 MPG. Boosting that by 5% gives 24.600. Since the EPA rounds everything above .5 up, this gives...

Incidentaly I never could figure out how the 2wd and 4wd had the same highway rating. They didn't. With 4wd it was 22.6628 which rounded up to 23.

So the 2wd v6 gives almost a mpg better on the highway than the 4wd but thanks to statistics they are the same.

ps real racing tires don't squeal, it is the vibrations of the tread that make the noise. Try some old baldinis: less tread and harder rubber will raise the pitch.
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Old 02-15-2013, 01:12 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

Just switch both sway bars to SRT units. Also consider switching wheels to some with less offset for a wider track. The other unexpected bonus is the reduced offset increases steering kickback, and weight slightly, which are all part of the driving feel. The typical 20-35mm aftermarket wheel offset increases your track by 2" or more, which is very noticeable in the handling.

The overland ride does get stiffer in the lower 'sport' ride height, but I think that is because it starts touching some long, progressive bumpstops.
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Old 02-15-2013, 03:32 PM
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Re: Upgrades to make the WK2 a sportier drive?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUEE View Post
The 20s don't improve road feel or anything like that, they just have a little less cushion.

The Jeep is a great vehicle, but not that sort of vehicle. It's a comfortable, floaty, numb vehicle designed for cruising around town, not attacking corners. It's not the worst of the SUVs out there, but it's also not the best. You're never going to get that sort of road feel and communication out of the vehicle, even the SRT8 doesn't communicate like you're expecting. With these vehicles, you drive them and plow through corners despite their size and heft. They're never going to feel like a nimble little sports car because a) they were designed with the exact opposite purpose in mind (to shield the driver from road imperfections and provide a wonderful ride) and b) they're massive.

The thing about the Cayenne GTS is that its more about a enjoyable experience than actual performance. It's down on hp to the Jeep by a lot, the Turbo and Turbo S are the real performance Cayennes.
I had stopped even reading your posts because they are always full of BULL...this one is no different.

No raod feel with 20's and the SRT doesnt communicate...LOL. Give it up dude. Have you even driven an SRT? Such BS spews from you.....
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