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Old 02-10-2014, 09:02 AM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

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Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
I agree with you in almost every aspect except the fuel economy statement. I agree that the diesel not only exceeds the EPA rating but it is also more frugal than the gas. But the Pentastar ALSO exceeds the EPA ratings and the fuel economy penalty compared to diesel is not as much.

From Chicago to Denver to Trail Ridge Road to Yellowstone to South Dakota to Chicago at 70 to 75, 3 people in the car with luggage for 8 days. I think it did decently. It all depends on each individual's needs...but fuel economy should not be the deciding argument.
Holy smoke 25.5 for 4000 miles fully loaded at 70+.

Keep in mind that my understanding is the evic is a moving average. It only counts the last 300 miles or so. At least that's what I read online on variuous forums.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:44 AM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

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Originally Posted by f1anatic View Post
I agree with you in almost every aspect except the fuel economy statement. I agree that the diesel not only exceeds the EPA rating but it is also more frugal than the gas. But the Pentastar ALSO exceeds the EPA ratings and the fuel economy penalty compared to diesel is not as much.

From Chicago to Denver to Trail Ridge Road to Yellowstone to South Dakota to Chicago at 70 to 75, 3 people in the car with luggage for 8 days. I think it did decently. It all depends on each individual's needs...but fuel economy should not be the deciding argument.
That's a great number if it's accurate. Has anyone compared the on-board computer to calculated mileage? I know on my V6, the on-board was optimistic between 1 and 1.5 mpg. I haven't had my V8 long enough to have an accurate calculated mileage yet, but it also appears as though the on-board calculator is optimistic...
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:57 AM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

Comparing that review with other reviews and what owners have been saying I wonder if USA today had a subpar test mule. I do agree the diesel seems a bit expensive option on the Grand Cherokee, according to the Jeep builder it's a $4,500 option on a 4x4 Overland whereas the Hemi is $3,195 over the standard V6. I know the transmission and possbily the 4wd system changes with these upgrades but I'd like to see the hemi price increase more around 1-1,500 and the diesel 2-2,500. Even with those price differences I would still go with the V6 since I don't tow much at all, driving I don't pile on the miles other than occasional trips, and I don't do any true off-roading.

I would tell most people the V6 is more than capable, get the hemi if you need something with more acceleration and towing but don't drive a lot of miles and if you tow and/or drive a lot of miles especially highway check out the diesel. Now of course check out the Hemi or Diesel depending on how much off-roading you do especially with the upgraded 4wd and transmission available.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:40 AM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

For the test, they were running #2 winter diesel, and driving in cold weather. Both will decrease milage. I was getting around 30 mpg when I was down south in November, but now back up north, with the winter blend and cold weather, it is down almost 30% from 20-22 mpg. We have had over 45 days of below zero temps. When it is above 20 outside, the milage has been better for me.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:15 PM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

I have seen cooling for the diesel brought up a few times; are owners having problems keeping the ecodiesel in normal temps when towing?
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:36 PM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

When you're comparing these numbers you need to compare both real numbers and realistically. Having done that you have to make apples and apples comparisons.

First of all mileage is calculated at the pump. Anything else is trash and when I see someone say they are getting mileage from their trip computer, EVIC, etc, I instantly toss it as worthless information. When I look at the numbers others are reporting I toss any numbers that are either above or below the overall average. By this I mean I don't throw out the low or high end but the numbers beyond that. While a few people are reporting 30 or more mpg on the diesel most are reporting highs in the mid to upper 20s. On the other end while a number are reporting lower 20s and a few in the high teens there is one guy claiming 13 to 14 which is way out of the fold. Either way with those abnormally high or low numbers I toss em because they are not likely to be representative of what I (or most people) will get.

Once you are there you have to make an objective estimate of where you fit in. If you tend to be lead footed and get numbers on the lower end you need to use the bottom end of reported mileage for comparison purposes. You tend to fall right in line with what most others are seeing use fleet average. Do better than others choose from the upper end.

Then you have to compare those numbers fairly. For some reason you see a lot of people with an agenda using either low gas/high diesel numbers or vice versa, high gas/low diesel numbers. Nearly always this comes along with a poorly reasoned reckoning of why either the gas or diesel version sucks. Keep it honest and use the numbers you would actually get in both cases. If you want to sell something get a job at a used car lot.

From there you have to look at the actual car you are going to buy, diesel and gas. The buy in for diesel on a GC ranges from more than 5k to 1305 dollars depending on which model and engine you would have otherwise purchased.

Do these things and you will be able to make a pretty good estimate of whether you will get payback or not. In my own case it doesn't matter, I tow a bass boat and I often cross the mountains doing it. Diesel rules the roost in that duty and I would have chosen it even were it to get worse mileage than the hemi.

As to the refinement, its an odd statement considering the hardware is the same and I'll be curious to see if it holds up when I have a chance to take a spin in the truck.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:47 PM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

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Originally Posted by Tristar View Post
I have seen cooling for the diesel brought up a few times; are owners having problems keeping the ecodiesel in normal temps when towing?
No, there are few reports of oil/trans overheating on the diesel GC and it has been in action for several years down under towing in high heat. There has been a number of people asking about and concerned as to if the temps they are seeing are ok or not. They are ok and typical of modern diesel and gas engines running synthetic and towing hard.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:49 PM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

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Originally Posted by ExcursionDiesel View Post
The VM3.0 and Pentastar v6 aren't comparable. The VM3.0 diesel performs more like the Hemi. The fact that the 8 speed for the diesel is the same one used in the Hemi is an indicator of the strength of the diesel motor. Its rated at twice the torque. The VM3.0 would damage the light duty Pentastar tranny with a few hard romps of the accelerator. If you want a lower torque, higher reving "economy" vehicle, the Pentastar is a great choice. Nothing wrong with it. If you want longer range, more towing capacity, Hemi drivability, and way better economy than the Hemi, the diesel is no brainer.

Comparing the diesel to the Pentastar is apples vs. oranges IMHO. BTW, I get 26.2 mpg per tank with mixed city and rural driving with my 4x4 ORA2 Limited CRD. Long trips yield 31.5 at 70mph on the interstate with moderate hills in middle TN. It has exceed EPA ratings in all aspects.
Ecodiesel is not even close to the Hemi, and the Pentastar is quicker. All powertrains compared here:

2014 Motor Trend SUV of the Year Contenders - Motor Trend Page 4

So, your statement could be corrected by, "If you want longer range, more towing capacity, Pentastar drivability, and way better economy than the Hemi, the diesel is no brainer."
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:02 PM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

I have the picture for the last 864 miles from south Dakota to Chicago. 26.4 mpg. That number earlier is the average for the whole trip which was 0.7 mpg more optimistic than pen and paper calculations. The EVIC number for fuel economy have greater variability and deviation from pen and paper in urban traffic. But the beauty of this imprecision is that it's also true for the diesel engine.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:08 PM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

He isn't wrong, the diesel has a lot of grunt as you're moving around and about town and feels like a strong V8. Numbers don't tell the whole story and the diesel feels far more powerful than the Pentastar. You clearly have not read all the excessive acceleration when starting from a stop with the diesel posts. lol
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:09 PM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

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Originally Posted by kkreit01 View Post
Ecodiesel is not even close to the Hemi, and the Pentastar is quicker. All powertrains compared here:

2014 Motor Trend SUV of the Year Contenders - Motor Trend Page 4

So, your statement could be corrected by, "If you want longer range, more towing capacity, Pentastar drivability, and way better economy than the Hemi, the diesel is no brainer."
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I don't know kids...I guess it depends where you get your information...the Diesel is different it took me a couple of times to get used to the turbo spooling...if you really want to smoke a Hemi in a diesel...get a bluespark That's an additional 70HP and 105ft lb of tq.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:35 PM
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Re: USA Today - Test Drive: New diesel Cherokee not quite Grand

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He isn't wrong, the diesel has a lot of grunt as you're moving around and about town and feels like a strong V8. Numbers don't tell the whole story and the diesel feels far more powerful than the Pentastar. You clearly have not read all the excessive acceleration when starting from a stop with the diesel posts. lol
I'm sure it "feels" this way -- as it should with that much torque. However, numbers don't lie. I'm sure the drive-ability is better for normal acceleration -- as you have to give the V6 quite a few revs to get going. Keep your foot planted, and the V6 keeps up. I haven't driven the diesel. I have no desire to. If I need to tow something heavy, I'll use my Ram. The cheapest gas near me is $2.93. The cheapest diesel is $3.76.
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