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  #61  
Old 02-18-2014, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariont View Post
As a former "I only drive Ford 4x4 Pickups" who fell in love with his wife's 2004 GC Special Edition even without the 4x4. When it got to the point I where I was no longer able to shift the manual transmission because of bad knees, my first choice when looking at a newer vehicle was the GC. I had 4 criteria when looking:

#1 - Affordable (that left out anything new as $30 to $50,000 is well out of my bracket on any vehicle)
#2 - 4x4 - Wife refuses to drive in snow no matter how little it is which means I need to be able to take her to and from work and my 83 year old mother lives in the boonies and whenever there's heavy snow or ice her power goes out for days and weeks at a time and I need to be able to get up her hill and get her out.
#3 - Engine with enough power to take me over the mountains and to be able to tow moderate weights without any trouble.
#4 - Automatic Transmission - Obviously I can no longer deal with mashing on the clutch non stop in traffic anymore.

I've never been a proponent of full time 4x4, as I never minded climbing out and locking in my manual hubs. However age and a bit of research led me to the QuadraDrive system and I must admit I'm pleased.

I've been reading this thread and the discussion on the newer GC has been pretty informative. I hate to admit it but I'm really glad I was able to get my WK equipped the way I wanted it at a very reasonable price. The newer WK2's remind me of crossovers and seem so small. Might not really be a true comparison, but a general observation on my very limited knowledge.

No matter what the future brings to the Jeep brand, my hope is that they stay true to their roots and offer us a Jeep that fits all of our needs, no matter what those may be.
I wish they would too but Jeep is like most other automakers that just worry about profits and diluting the brand rather than staying true to their roots. The wrangler and 4runner are the only subs that have stayed true to their roots.... But like I said I would still rather see Jeep survive and build the best at whatever market they are going after than go out of business.
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  #62  
Old 02-18-2014, 01:12 PM
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Re: Will Jeep still be Jeep

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Originally Posted by LaredoX View Post
He didn't refute it... He tried to lightly touch on that the cayenne and X5 would outperform it on road. He failed to mention the Audi, VW and Range Rover Sport would also outperform it thus it has five cars in its class that outperform it on road as well as the VW, Cayenne, Mercedes and Range Rover Sport would more than keep up with the WK2 offroad hence the WK2 is not really that good at anything.
And it died with the WK2.... The w
WK with quadradrive 2 is easily to most offroad capable stock Grand Cherokee to date.
Let me guess, you own a WK? Sorry, but if you think the WK is the most capable Grand Cherokee, there is no point in continuing this discussion...
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  #63  
Old 02-18-2014, 01:24 PM
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WJ and WK are depending on the drivers needs. If I was rock crawling I'd obviously want a WJ but I need a trail rig that can tow as well and trail wise a WK is as capable if not more than a WJ and tows better. You mean to say the WK2 is? Did you see the picture of it running the Rubicon?
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  #64  
Old 02-18-2014, 01:35 PM
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Re: Will Jeep still be Jeep

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Originally Posted by LaredoX View Post
WJ and WK are depending on the drivers needs. If I was rock crawling I'd obviously want a WJ but I need a trail rig that can tow as well and trail wise a WK is as capable if not more than a WJ and tows better. You mean to say the WK2 is? Did you see the picture of it running the Rubicon?
Hmmm, dont remember saying anything about the WK2 off road, as a matter of fact....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristar View Post
Yes, gone are the days of the GC being a very capable off roader. That died after the WJ sadly.
I enjoy how you have hedged on your "WK with quadradrive 2 is easily to most offroad capable stock Grand Cherokee to date" comment by now stating it depends on the drivers needs. No offense, but a large number of the changes to the WK were to improve on road drivability. Calling it "easily the most offroad capable" is a big stretch...

I think its a safe bet you own a WK...
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  #65  
Old 02-18-2014, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristar View Post

Hmmm, dont remember saying anything about the WK2 off road, as a matter of fact....

I enjoy how you have hedged on your "WK with quadradrive 2 is easily to most offroad capable stock Grand Cherokee to date" comment by now stating it depends on the drivers needs. No offense, but a large number of the changes to the WK were to improve on road drivability. Calling it "easily the most offroad capable" is a big stretch...

I think its a safe bet you own a WK...
Let's see front wheel travel increased over the previous generation. Rear wheel travel stayed the same but switch to a 5 link setup. Engine performance improved. 4 wheel drive improved. It got hill descent and Hill assist.Yeah I'd say it's pretty obvious the WK is the most capable when it comes to trails and over landing. Safe bet you've never driven a WJ or WK.
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  #66  
Old 02-18-2014, 01:57 PM
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  #67  
Old 02-18-2014, 02:19 PM
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Re: Will Jeep still be Jeep

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Originally Posted by LaredoX View Post
Have you rode in a new wrangler?
Yeah, seriously considered [and drove] the Wrangler Unlimited as a replacement for a
95 ZJ with a few OR mods on it. If my weekends were my weekdays, and I didn't enjoy western cross country trips so much, I probably would have ended up with the WURubicon instead of the WK2.

I would categorically state that anyone who cannot tell the difference between a
WK2 Overland and any new model Wrangler is deaf and has too much novocaine [or fat] in their bohurkus.
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  #68  
Old 02-18-2014, 02:22 PM
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Re: Will Jeep still be Jeep

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Originally Posted by Jim_in_PA View Post
JGC is what the majority of the buying public wants it to be...most folks who buy the many tens of thousands of them are not hard-core off-road enthusiasts. Many go off-road occasionally and some juice their rides up for more serious play. But "most of us"? We're highway drivers primarily and a different audience than folks who focus on off-road.

IE, it's about marketing a product that meets the requirements of the folks who are willing to buy it, especially at today's prices.
I agree 150%, but I really hope they are not stupid enough to kill the Wrangler, or make it out of a glorified Fiat 500L chassis. I take my WK2 in some serious places, but trying to follow a Wrangler would be stupid In My Non Humble Opinion.

Hopefully the GC and the new C will allow the Wrangler to continue to be available--say with a Hemi in the Unlimited as an option.

Being fast does not preclude being OR capable, ask Bill Stroppe, etc.
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  #69  
Old 02-18-2014, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by lstowell View Post
Yeah, seriously considered [and drove] the Wrangler Unlimited as a replacement for a
95 ZJ with a few OR mods on it. If my weekends were my weekdays, and I didn't enjoy western cross country trips so much, I probably would have ended up with the WURubicon instead of the WK2.

I would categorically state that anyone who cannot tell the difference between a
WK2 Overland and any new model Wrangler is deaf and has too much novocaine [or fat] in their bohurkus.
My ass has gotten fatter as Ive aged...
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  #70  
Old 02-18-2014, 02:32 PM
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Re: Will Jeep still be Jeep

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Originally Posted by LaredoX View Post
Yes the WK2 will probably move up in price range so that it can compete performance wise with the other vehicles in its class. While I will always drive a vehicle like the WJ or WK that is true to Jeep's heritage I would never like to see Jeep go out of business and so I understand the direction they've gone and want nothing more than to see the next gen Grand Cherokee kick the Range Rover and Cayenne's butt and become king of that class...
I think you are correct there... think it was Autoweek or similar indicating that the future direction of the GC was upmarket according to Sergio himself.

Dunno what happened to the thought of making a Maserati based version of the GC, but I would have to wonder if the Jeep name has more creds than the Maserati name would either in the US or internationally.

Suspect their discovery that yes, people would pay over $50K for a tarted up Jeep may have helped push this argument.

As for the Land Rover, the Range Rovers are capable off road but I'd have to argue that they are not any more capable off road than the WK2 if set up with OR-II. Land Rover doesn't push the Range Rover as the off road--that's the LR series job.

The Cayenne? Well, Porsche has unfortunately decided not enough drivers want the weight and expense of a true transfer case any more. Maybe with a 16 speed transmission you wouldn't need one, but it doesn't have the crawl ratio any more.

I'd prefer to see an SRT with the same off road capability as a WK2 with the OR-II package--I'd trade my Overland for that beast.
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Old 02-18-2014, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by lstowell View Post
I think you are correct there... think it was Autoweek or similar indicating that the future direction of the GC was upmarket according to Sergio himself.

Dunno what happened to the thought of making a Maserati based version of the GC, but I would have to wonder if the Jeep name has more creds than the Maserati name would either in the US or internationally.

Suspect their discovery that yes, people would pay over $50K for a tarted up Jeep may have helped push this argument.

As for the Land Rover, the Range Rovers are capable off road but I'd have to argue that they are not any more capable off road than the WK2 if set up with OR-II. Land Rover doesn't push the Range Rover as the off road--that's the LR series job.

The Cayenne? Well, Porsche has unfortunately decided not enough drivers want the weight and expense of a true transfer case any more. Maybe with a 16 speed transmission you wouldn't need one, but it doesn't have the crawl ratio any more.

I'd prefer to see an SRT with the same off road capability as a WK2 with the OR-II package--I'd trade my Overland for that beast.
I would honestly consider that vehicle as well.
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  #72  
Old 02-18-2014, 03:22 PM
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Re: Will Jeep still be Jeep

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Originally Posted by LaredoX View Post
He didn't refute it... He tried to lightly touch on that the cayenne and X5 would outperform it on road. He failed to mention the Audi, VW and Range Rover Sport would also outperform it thus it has five cars in its class that outperform it on road as well as the VW, Cayenne, Mercedes and Range Rover Sport would more than keep up with the WK2 offroad hence the WK2 is not really that good at anything.
And it died with the WK2.... The w
WK with quadradrive 2 is easily to most offroad capable stock Grand Cherokee to date.
Little boy please quote me correctly. The VW and Audi CUVs/SUVs dont outperform it on the road. Only CUVs that outperform it on road again are the X5 and Cayenne. X5 and Cayenne suck off road. Only SUV that outperforms it is the Range Rover Sport Supercharged. A WK2 can run with a regular Range Rover Sport on and off road easily. Sorry the only Mercedes that can keep up with a WK2 is a G wagon off road and on road WK2 has no problem excepting the AMG versions on road. No VW or Cayenne can run with a WK2 offroad. Do you have a DL? I was out late Thurs night Fri morning driving offroad in my WK2 with a the ORAI package and V6 and had no problems crossing acres of fields covered with 18" or more of snow to help a friend check her ewes that were lambing. Not flat fields but the hilly terrain of Northern Fauquier county VA. I also run Blizzaks which kept me going while friends in Chevy2500 4wd with BFG ATs and another in Ford F250 with 4wd and mud terrains were getting stuck. each them had 800+ lbs of weight in the bed. The 4 Runner sucks on road compared to a WK2 and off road it beats you up compared to a WK2. The WK2's select terrain has it all over the 4 Runner unless you really want to rock climb which isnt the WK2s niche.

Driving on road is 98% driver. I put your ass in a current stock Camaro Z28
at Mid Ohio, Road Atlanta, the Glen or Summit Point and I take a bone stock manual trannie 2014 Honda Civic. You get a half lap lead and I lap you in less than 5 laps after I make you mess in your pants.

The Wrangler Unlimited numbnuts is for folks who need the space, 4 doors and require a more hardcore offroad capability. Most folks like me dont need

BTW a Range Rover Sport will push a WK2 offroad not just the LR series. Hell a Range Rover autobiography edition will push a Wk2 offroad.
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