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  #25  
Old 12-20-2010, 10:28 AM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

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Originally Posted by xmonger View Post
Good point, and even worse it doesn't seem like the company is steeping up to the plate to handle the issue. I read one response where Audi is blaming the quality of the gas used by the driver.

Here's a good mega thread on the topic:
http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...-up-Megathread


I am a little wary of all direct injection engines. Their very nature of operation makes them more likely to have issues compared to conventional FI. I am glad Chryco didn't go with it for the 3.6L at the present. (it is planned for the future though)

For whatever reason, the carbon problems seem to really plague Audi vehicles. Lexus seems to have it figured out. From what I've read, they use an extra injector upstream of the valves that occasionally pulses to help keep the valves clean.

Either way, I believe DI is here to stay. I think it's just a matter of time before Audi engineers resort to a similar system that Lexus is using or maybe finds another way to deal with the issue. In the meantime, current owners are left scrambling trying to find a way to prevent the terrible build-up in the first place. It seems like everyone with an Audi is going with a catch-can, but it seems that doesn't help much either.
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  #26  
Old 12-20-2010, 10:51 AM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

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Originally Posted by MSCA View Post
For whatever reason, the carbon problems seem to really plague Audi vehicles. Lexus seems to have it figured out. From what I've read, they use an extra injector upstream of the valves that occasionally pulses to help keep the valves clean.

Either way, I believe DI is here to stay. I think it's just a matter of time before Audi engineers resort to a similar system that Lexus is using or maybe finds another way to deal with the issue. In the meantime, current owners are left scrambling trying to find a way to prevent the terrible build-up in the first place. It seems like everyone with an Audi is going with a catch-can, but it seems that doesn't help much either.

Agreed, DI is the wave of the future. More power/better mpg. But the kinks need to be worked out, so the longer one waits to pick up a vehicle with DI, the better (me thinks).
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  #27  
Old 12-20-2010, 11:46 AM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

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Originally Posted by xmonger View Post
Agreed, DI is the wave of the future. More power/better mpg. But the kinks need to be worked out, so the longer one waits to pick up a vehicle with DI, the better (me thinks).
I think you're right. At the moment, people are thinking DI = more power and more efficiency, but this nasty little side effect hasn't come to light.

New engine technology tends to take a little while to shake out.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:03 PM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

DI can make for maintenance issues down the road for people keeping vehicles a long time. After 50,000 miles or sometimes sooner, carbon is so built up on the intake valves of a DI engine that you'd have to pull the heads to fully clean them. The DI designs do not enable fuel to pass over the intake valves so they build up deposits. No, I'm not a big fan of DI until that little maintenance issue gets sorted out. I spent nearly $1800 every 25,000 miles to clean the valves of an A4 with DI and I expect to have to do that to our other DI vehicles too, except for the new JGC.

edit: Gasoline DI engines power/operation is far more noticeably affected than diesel engines in regards to carbon buildup.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:28 PM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

Diesels have been using direct injection for decades without this problem. Large trucks and heavy equipment especially. I wonder what is causing this in gasoline DI engines, cooler cylinder temps, cooler charge air temps, or intake charge being below atmospheric pressure as opposed to pressurized by a turbo.
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Old 12-20-2010, 01:39 PM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

Light duty diesels do suffer from this problem because they use EGR while heavy duty diesels do not. The EGR, combined with poorer fuel quality in the U.S. (can't speak for Mexico or Canada, but European diesel and gasoline is of much higher quality) combine to the carbon buildup issue. I've torn down a few diesels that had massive carbon buildup; they are not immune but also do not suffer as noticeably as their DI gasoline counterparts do.
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  #31  
Old 12-20-2010, 09:18 PM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

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Originally Posted by Bmwister View Post
DI can make for maintenance issues down the road for people keeping vehicles a long time. After 50,000 miles or sometimes sooner, carbon is so built up on the intake valves of a DI engine that you'd have to pull the heads to fully clean them. The DI designs do not enable fuel to pass over the intake valves so they build up deposits. No, I'm not a big fan of DI until that little maintenance issue gets sorted out. I spent nearly $1800 every 25,000 miles to clean the valves of an A4 with DI and I expect to have to do that to our other DI vehicles too, except for the new JGC.

edit: Gasoline DI engines power/operation is far more noticeably affected than diesel engines in regards to carbon buildup.
Like I said earlier, Lexus seemed to have already figured it out. Using an extra injector upstream of the valves really seems to solve the carbon issues for them. There are other problems with DI engines too. BMW had been having a lot of problems with the fuel pumps on their DI engines. Ask the guys in the 3-series forums about that....
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  #32  
Old 12-20-2010, 11:46 PM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

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Originally Posted by Danco View Post
All,

I was ready to go buy the Overland Hemi, but after waiting so long for the new RHR to become available, and now with the new wait for saddle to be offered agian without the Summit package, I am getting a little fed up. My lease (X5) is up at the end of Feb, and it now looks like I will not be able to get an overland in time. Therefore, I started looking for other suvs.

My primary use for the vehicle is for my hour long commute. Addittionally, I need the SUV to be very capable in the snow, as I do a lot of snowboarding on the weekends and need to be able to get up the mountains in storms. I will occationally ride on the beach, but do not do any serious off roading.

While I am still hopeing that the saddle restriction will be lifted by the end of the year so I can order the WK2 hemi, I am thinking of the Audi Q5 as an alternative. Does anyone have any experiance with this SUV? Anyone have any opinons on it? Yes, I know it is not a serious off roader.
Thanks.
I test drove both the Q7 and Q5, mostly b/c I was so intrigued given their respective (high) prices. The Q7 had the extra (3rd row), but was underpowered. If I recall, you can't get more than a V6 option, and we are talking about a car > $60K (before add ons, etc.). The Q5 was also...nice, smooth, but an entirely (bland) forgetable driving experience. Also...and this was just my personal preference, but Audi LOVES the little red LED displays and red buttons on their displays. I just can't handle all that Red, Q5 or Q7. Some folks love it. I just thought the Overland, with the roof fully retracted, the saddle leather, the quadra lift...had something extra...I still like a little HP/Torque, but also distinction. This car has it in spades.
It's my humble opinion that those folks purchasing an Overland at this point in time will look back and more fully realize the value given the competitors. Range Rovers, Audi, and BMW are very expensive. They are more expensive due to a weak U.S. dollar than to better performance or value. Simply my opinion, but also creates a unique opportunity for buyers willing to get into this category. I think Jeep is wise to price the G.C. right where they price it.
Also...to be frank, Jeep has been dragged into Chrysler's issues and must rebuild the brand. This will take time, and the discount we are paying relative to Range Rover, Audi, BMW...is about the discount you should pay for the risk in doing business with this company's recent history. If they keep up the good work, I believe this Overland will earn higher prices in the future, which hopefully will drive more innovation and value to consumers. It's interesting...I told a few of the folks that I work with that I was looking at the Overland Summit, and they were like, "what are you talking about??...a JEEP?" Why wouldn't you get a Range Rover or something if you want an SUV? Then after actually showing them all the cool stuff, they connected the dots...the responses turned to, "whoa...that's a hot car..." The numbers don't lie, as Jeeps Year Over Year increase in this model are somewhere around +250% growth, driving overall sales @ Chrysler to +17% growth Year Over Year...I ordered my Overland Summit on 12-9...and I just looked at my dealer's screen today and it shows ship date of 01-05, meaning I should have it on 1-15. I'll work with that. I will be taking the credit on the 730N (RHR)...unless I really like the 430Garmin. Win/Win. Good luck on your purchase!
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  #33  
Old 12-20-2010, 11:51 PM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

i saw a fat chick driving a Q5 once
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  #34  
Old 12-27-2010, 03:20 PM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

Dunno about the Q5, but yesterday a neighbor's Q7 spun out hopelessly in a foot of snow on his driveway's slight grade. Our 1994 GC took our driveway's snow, steeper grade and all, like a walk in the park (we're waiting for the '12 WK2).

You know what they say: Your real friends are those that come through when times are tough!
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  #35  
Old 01-01-2011, 10:14 PM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

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Originally Posted by Lingohocken View Post
Dunno about the Q5, but yesterday a neighbor's Q7 spun out hopelessly in a foot of snow on his driveway's slight grade. Our 1994 GC took our driveway's snow, steeper grade and all, like a walk in the park (we're waiting for the '12 WK2).

You know what they say: Your real friends are those that come through when times are tough!
classic post...i live in a steep slope area, and full of Q5/Q7's...I'll look out for these spin outs and will be a good neighbor and help out with a tow in my Overland...lol
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:03 PM
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Re: WK2 Overland vs. Audi Q5

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Originally Posted by CapecodJeep View Post
Gentleman, Saddle/Black interior is available on the 2011 Overland, as well as the Summit Edition. As a matter of fact, my Sept. ordered 2011 GC Overland Hemi, Brilliant Black, Saddle/Black interior, Tech. Pkg. has left the factory, estimated delivery week of XMas. Regarding Garmin vs. RHR. IMO, if you are not a heavy techie, who does not engage every single option that will be available, then the Garmin will suffice....IMO.
That may have been true when you posted this but around the 20th Saddle was put on indefinite hold and dealers can't even select in their online ordering system. As of last Friday there was no release date on Saddle for new orders. I ended up placing an order for a Mineral Gray with Black on the 27th after I was there with the dealer GM talking to his rep and he confirmed they have no idea how long Saddle will be on hold. I've already got a VIN which would not have been the case if I were to wait on Saddle.

As for the Audi/Touareg/Cayenne vs. WK2 debate, I've had a 2004 Cayenne Turbo and a 2008 Touareg V8. I sold the Touareg and am replacing it with an Overland 4X4. To me the Overland has a better highway ride, far better offroad cred and packs a lot more bang for the buck than the VW group triplets and I've been a huge fan of them for a long time.
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