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  #13  
Old 07-15-2015, 07:53 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

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Originally Posted by SeaJay View Post
One thing to keep in mind is the lockers on the Rubicon are governed to work only in 4lo and up to a max speed of 10mph.... for me that was a huge turn-off. Also if you're going to start comparing Willys to Rubicon don't forget the different transfer cases each are equipped with.
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Originally Posted by MDOBLER View Post
Why can't Jeep just offer a Dana 44 front on Willys as an option? I'd be fine with switching out gearing for larger tires but don't want all that weight on a 30 or have to pay to upgrade that as well.
Excellent points, folks. It reiterates that even though the Willys looks like a Rubicon, it's still a Sport mechanically. The Willys comes with the 2.72:1 crawl ratio, and the Rubicon has the 4:1 for a much slower 4LO crawl. When talking about snow, mud, or sand, slow crawling isn't a benefit (although all four wheels locked can help in deep snow). The Willys also comes with the Dana 30 axle in the front, but the Rubicon has the larger Dana 44's front and rear. The larger front axle is to compensate for large amounts of 4WD stress (usually rock crawling), or if upgrading to much larger tires.

The Rubicon is really designed as a serious wheeling machine from the factory. The Willys gives you the look and feel of the Rubicon, but is really mechanically inferior when it comes to serious crawling.

Now, I see Rich has maybe moved from Willys v Rubicon to Sahara v Rubicon, but I wanted to echo the other points that SeaJay and MDOBLER pointed out that I missed earlier.

Sounds like Sahara is just the ticket for you, Rich! One thing I would consider if you decide to go with the Sahara: opt for the 3.73 axle ratio, especially if you get an Unlimited.

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Old 07-15-2015, 08:01 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

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Originally Posted by jgkoch75 View Post
Sounds like Sahara is just the ticket for you, Rich!
Thanks! I tend to go overboard with things, and I just had to pull myself back down to earth and be realistic about what I should really get. I guess I just got stuck on the idea that I wanted *true* four wheel drive, and the Rubicon was just way overkill for me. A local dealer here in Tallahassee had a 2015 Rubicon that was exactly what I wanted, but it was listed as being USED because it went through two owners in under 500 miles. Maybe those two owners came to the same realization that I would have, had I bought that thing.

With 3.73 gears in the Sahara along with LSD in the rear, that should be just fine for me.

Got a dealer asking for pics of the Corvette, so maybe I can arrange it so that I actually place the order on my birthday (July 21). It will be my 65th, so this could be something special to commemorate my living through all the dumb stuff I did when I was younger....
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Old 07-15-2015, 08:19 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

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Got a dealer asking for pics of the Corvette, so maybe I can arrange it so that I actually place the order on my birthday (July 21). It will be my 65th, so this could be something special to commemorate my living through all the dumb stuff I did when I was younger....
I love it when a plan comes together!
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Old 07-15-2015, 09:06 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

That'd be a great birthday gift!
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Old 07-15-2015, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaJay View Post

Oh yeah... I agree completely. It's everyday driving on snowy, icy roads when you can't really use the 4wd because it's dry in some spots, icy in other spots, etc. That's where the trak lok can be useful. I've owned CJs and TJs with open diffs and I agree, once in 4wd they're great... but the trak lok will always give you the edge where full on Rubicon type lockers are completely useless unless you're driving under 10 miles per hour. I really think Rubicons are overrated...
Just wanted to apologize for my earlier comment regarding Rubicons being overrated. For my situation and 4 wheeling environment what I SHOULD have said is the Rubicon is way more than I need. Didn't want to offend any Rubicon owners... in my eyes you guys are king of the hill.
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Old 07-15-2015, 10:19 PM
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Thanks for the advice. I am glad I spent the time I did digging around and asking around.......
Sounds cool Rich... good luck dude.
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:43 AM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

Just remember, the Willys was designed for the offroader who didn't want to spend for the Rubi, that's why you can't get some of the creature comfort options on it. I understand what they are doing with it and not allowing certain options and actually think it's a solid idea. Anyway, either model you get you'll love.
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:13 AM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

I am on the fence myself between a Sahara and a Rubicon. Wanted a sport but not much inventory around here.
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Old 07-16-2015, 05:00 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

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Originally Posted by jgkoch75 View Post
As for the Sahara tires, I'm not sure I agree that they are unworthy for your situation. The Sahara comes stock with Bridgestone Dueler A/T RH-S (255/70r18). If you look at the reviews on Tirerack.com, you can see that it's a pretty decent tire for OEM. Is it the very best A/T out there? No. But I think it would do fine on the beach and give you a smooth street ride. It certainly doesn't have the mean looks of the BFGoodrich T/A KM mud tires that come on the Willys and Rubicon, but an A/T tire is designed to excel in different areas.
I just found out today that I've been attributing the wrong Dueler tire to the Sahara. When I first starting looking at Wranglers in 2014, I went to TireRack.com to research what tires came stock on which trims. As it turns out, Tire Rack mistakenly states that the Bridgestone Dueler A/T RH-S is the OEM tire. I just today checked the FCA Specifications sheet for the 2015 Wrangler, and it states that the Sahara, in fact, comes with the Bridgestone Dueler A/T 693. A similar All-Terrain tire, but not as aggressive as the RH-S.

I've been duped once again. My apologies.

You can download all the 2015 Wrangler Specifications from the right-hand column on this site:

http://www.media.chrysler.com/newsroom.do?id=40&mid=52

(There is also a corresponding site for the Unlimited, if you want that specifically.)
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  #22  
Old 07-16-2015, 05:41 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jgkoch75 View Post
I just found out today that I've been attributing the wrong Dueler tire to the Sahara. When I first starting looking at Wranglers in 2014, I went to TireRack.com to research what tires came stock on which trims. As it turns out, Tire Rack mistakenly states that the Bridgestone Dueler A/T RH-S is the OEM tire. I just today checked the FCA Specifications sheet for the 2015 Wrangler, and it states that the Sahara, in fact, comes with the Bridgestone Dueler A/T 693. A similar All-Terrain tire, but not as aggressive as the RH-S.

I've been duped once again. My apologies.

You can download all the 2015 Wrangler Specifications from the right-hand column on this site:

http://www.media.chrysler.com/newsroom.do?id=40&mid=52

(There is also a corresponding site for the Unlimited, if you want that specifically.)
Upon further review...

It looks like the Spec sheet is wrong (or more accurately, not updated). It looks like maybe 07-11 Saharas might have come with the Dueler 693, but the current Saharas are using the RH-S.

Turns out, Tire Rack was correct after all.

Trying to keep all this straight is maddening.
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  #23  
Old 07-16-2015, 07:45 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

Just to put it out there.. I was originally looking to get a Rubicon, but ended up with a (2013) Sahara. I live in Northeast Ohio and the OEM tires have been perfectly fine in the winter for me which have included some pretty decent snowfalls and a few steep hills. Yes, we do have hills in Ohio. I do have the Trac-Lok in the back and 3.73 gearing.

Now.. I have been considering upgrading to an unlimited and the Rubicon is still calling to me..
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  #24  
Old 07-16-2015, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Dryver View Post
Yes, we do have hills in Ohio.
Those were hills? I thought they were speed bumps!
Just kidding, just kidding.
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