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Old 07-14-2015, 03:05 AM
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2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

So I'm scouring over all the info I can find, including the new 2016 order guide, and I think I've narrowed down what I want to order to be between the Willys or a Rubicon. They seem to have similar standard options on both of them, but I want to run this by more knowledgeable people here to let me know what the differences actually are. Plus I need to get one more post in so I can send a PM to someone......

Oh yeah, the 2016 order form shows two columns for the Willys. One is coded 24K and the other 24W. Yeah, I'm getting an automatic transmission. The wife isn't keen on a stick shift, and we are trading in HER car for the jeep. Anyway, best I can figure is that the difference in the two Willy's codes is that the "W" means with air conditioning and the "K" means without. Is that right?

Oh, honestly I am astonished that Jeep isn't offering various different wheel and tire packages to go with these Wranglers. I guess they have a bunch of KISS advocates on staff.....

Thanks!

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Old 07-14-2015, 08:19 AM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

As far as I can tell, the only difference between a 2-door Willys (K) and Willys (W) is Air Conditioning, and the MSRP difference between the packages is a whopping $2100! You can add A/C to the K package for $1295. This was discussed during 2014 and 15, and no one seemed to understand what was going on there.

Now, all Unlimited trims come standard with A/C, so the packages are different. What you get for the $2100 W package on an Unlimited is the Power Convenience Group, a $1595 option that is not available as an option on the K.

Plenty of people are confused about how Jeep has structured these two packages. It seems hastily put together and overpriced (unless you really want the Power Convenience group on an Unlimited Willys)?

As for Willys v Rubicon, they are mechanically different beasts. The Willys comes standard with 3.73 front/rear axle ratios (as does a base Automatic Rubicon), but the Manual Rubicon comes with 4.10 axle ratios, and it's an option for the Auto. The Willys comes with Trac-Lok limited slip rear differential and an open front differential. The Rubicon comes with front/rear lockers that function as open differentials when not locked. The Rubicon comes with electronic sway bar disconnect standard. There are also a few other interior options that are standard on the Rubi, I believe.
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Old 07-14-2015, 08:51 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

Thanks for your reply.

So the Rubicon doesn't also come with a limited slip rear differential? Even as an add-on option?

It appears that the Willys doesn't come with the color matched three piece hard top, nor can you get navigation with it. Those might be show stoppers for me. Heck, if I can't get a LSD with the Rubicon, not sure if that won't be a show stopper to.

Is Jeep purposely trying to drive people crazy with the options availability? Back when I bought my '98 Wrangler new, every option could be had buffet style. So I got exactly what I wanted.
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Old 07-14-2015, 09:37 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

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Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
Thanks for your reply.

So the Rubicon doesn't also come with a limited slip rear differential? Even as an add-on option?

It appears that the Willys doesn't come with the color matched three piece hard top, nor can you get navigation with it. Those might be show stoppers for me. Heck, if I can't get a LSD with the Rubicon, not sure if that won't be a show stopper to.

Is Jeep purposely trying to drive people crazy with the options availability? Back when I bought my '98 Wrangler new, every option could be had buffet style. So I got exactly what I wanted.
Trac-Lok (limited slip) is not available on the Rubicon. I don't know the mechanical specifics of how the lockers work on the Rubicon, so I don't know if it's physically impossible to have both? I know it was possible in the past to have both lockers and LSD, but it's not an option currently.

Looks like you're correct about the Willys not getting the options of colored hard top and Navigation.

I feel the same way you do about restricting options and structuring packages (and to a lesser degree Special Editions) with required options someone might not want, and at the same time denying trim levels certain options. Have to assume it's a ploy to force buyers to upgrade in trim and settle for things they otherwise wouldn't pay for just to get the option they really want.

Can't please all of us, I guess. Or maybe they could if they just let us build our own Wranglers from all the available options?!
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Old 07-14-2015, 10:17 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

The electronic locker precludes the need for a limited slip when you are off pavement.

A limited slip diff like what is available on the rear axle of a willys provides increased traction off road over and open diff.

A selectable electronic locker like what is on both axles ona rubicon provides a significant traction increase over the limited slip diff off road.
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Old 07-14-2015, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_B View Post
The electronic locker precludes the need for a limited slip when you are off pavement.

A limited slip diff like what is available on the rear axle of a willys provides increased traction off road over and open diff.
One thing to keep in mind is the lockers on the Rubicon are governed to work only in 4lo and up to a max speed of 10mph.... for me that was a huge turn-off. Also if you're going to start comparing Willys to Rubicon don't forget the different transfer cases each are equipped with.
For me the Willys with the 3.73s and rear trac-lok are perfect. In a snow storm that trac-lok is mighty nice to have... those Rubicon lockers in that situation are useless unless you're going to drive down the highway in 4lo going 10mph. And when you dont have your axles locked in that Rubi youre just sitting on top of two open diffs.
Rock crawling? Rubicon! Everything else? Willys!
Just some food for though OP.
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Old 07-15-2015, 12:35 AM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

We just traded our 2013 2dr Rubicon. We had it in deep snow several times. Always worked great without the need to even use the lockers. No problems there trust me. Gf made fun of my truck bcz it gave me more trouble getting up our drive. Rubicon will be better for the more serious offroaders i would think. Im gonna miss that Heep
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Heep View Post
We just traded our 2013 2dr Rubicon. We had it in deep snow several times. Always worked great without the need to even use the lockers. No problems there trust me. Gf made fun of my truck bcz it gave me more trouble getting up our drive. Rubicon will be better for the more serious offroaders i would think. Im gonna miss that Heep
Oh yeah... I agree completely. It's everyday driving on snowy, icy roads when you can't really use the 4wd because it's dry in some spots, icy in other spots, etc. That's where the trak lok can be useful. I've owned CJs and TJs with open diffs and I agree, once in 4wd they're great... but the trak lok will always give you the edge where full on Rubicon type lockers are completely useless unless you're driving under 10 miles per hour. I really think Rubicons are overrated...
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Old 07-15-2015, 02:58 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Jeep I want and am spinning in circles. I would get a Willys, but I can't get nav nor colored hard top with it. The Sahara would do fine, but the wheel and tire selection just sucks. The Rubicon is leading the pack, but heck, in north Florida do I really need lockers? There is no rock climbing around here because, well, there really aren't any rocks. And when people find them, they prominently place them in their yards like rare trophies. Would you believe living in a place where people would actually steal rocks from someone's yard?

But I do envision doing some driving on the beaches, so in that sort of circumstance, would the Rubicon have an edge over the others?
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Old 07-15-2015, 04:47 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z View Post
I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Jeep I want and am spinning in circles. I would get a Willys, but I can't get nav nor colored hard top with it. The Sahara would do fine, but the wheel and tire selection just sucks. The Rubicon is leading the pack, but heck, in north Florida do I really need lockers? There is no rock climbing around here because, well, there really aren't any rocks. And when people find them, they prominently place them in their yards like rare trophies. Would you believe living in a place where people would actually steal rocks from someone's yard?

But I do envision doing some driving on the beaches, so in that sort of circumstance, would the Rubicon have an edge over the others?
I can understand if you don't like the 18" standard Sahara wheels; they are big and shiny and...circular. An acquired taste, maybe? Keep in mind, those rims are reportedly to come with the inside of the small circles painted Granite Crystal for 2016, like so:



Also, the 7-spoke wheel is an optional upgrade (D) for the Sahara if you're into the spokey style:



You could also try and structure your order deal to include the dealership changing your wheels to some other OEM take-offs if you're partial to the Rubi wheels or whatever. Dealerships are often left with Wrangler take-offs because many buyers upgrade to aftermarket right away and will agree to do a no-cost swap for you.

As for the Sahara tires, I'm not sure I agree that they are unworthy for your situation. The Sahara comes stock with Bridgestone Dueler A/T RH-S (255/70r18). If you look at the reviews on Tirerack.com, you can see that it's a pretty decent tire for OEM. Is it the very best A/T out there? No. But I think it would do fine on the beach and give you a smooth street ride. It certainly doesn't have the mean looks of the BFGoodrich T/A KM mud tires that come on the Willys and Rubicon, but an A/T tire is designed to excel in different areas.
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Old 07-15-2015, 05:00 PM
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Why can't Jeep just offer a Dana 44 front on Willys as an option? I'd be fine with switching out gearing for larger tires but don't want all that weight on a 30 or have to pay to upgrade that as well.
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Old 07-15-2015, 07:10 PM
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Re: 2016 Willys vs Rubicon?

Yeah, I think I can live with the optional 7 spoke wheels for the Sahara. Plus I like the fact that they are 18 inch wheels, which may give me a better selection of aftermarket tires and/or wheels if I find them wearing on my eyes.

I've decided to go ahead and get a Sahara after all. The options I want are there, and even some things I want that would be optional on the Rubicon are standard. Honestly the more I read about the Rubicon, the less I felt it would fit well with what I would actually do with the Jeep. I'm 3/4s of a mile from the east side of the Apalachicola National Forest so most of my time would probably be spent driving the sandy roads there. Except for some mudholes, things shouldn't be all that challenging. If TOO challenging, then I probably really don't need to see what is on the other side after all. I don't feel that I would need to prove anything to the road.

The wife and I would like to take a drive out west, so surely there will be roads that I just couldn't take the Corvette down, that the Jeep would be much better to have handy. But a lot depends on what trade-in I could get on the vette. I'm not giving it away. Worst comes to worst I would just put this whole Jeep purchase thing back in the closet.

So now I'll be heading into the haggling (headache) stage. Wish the local dealers around Tallahassee would be easy to work with, but from past experiences, I'm not holding my breath expecting that to happen.

Thanks for the advice. I am glad I spent the time I did digging around and asking around.......
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