Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels - Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum

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Old 08-19-2016, 08:42 AM
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Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

I'm deciding between WW-W and Sport S 2 door with exterior/mechanical features of the WW-W (LSD/3.73, etc). I don't mind the internals of the WW-W but they are of lower value to me.

My question arises due to personal preference on aesthetics of wheel and choice color combinations. My preference is Rhino with black WW-W wheels or possibly Billet with Aluminum wheels.


For reasons that are also personal I very much prefer the A/T tire that is stock on Sport S. The actual wheels and tires are the same size, and AT gives me virtually same clearance (9.7 vs 10) and will do as well on my off road ( lots of beach driving) and[plowed snow, and give me a better on-street ride and dynamics.

So my questions has to do with negotiating dealer swapping stuff on purchase of vehicle.( I realize some of you guys sell stuff on crags, but I have little space to store five wheels or tires at the moment)

a) Can anyone approximate value difference to the dealer of the factory 5 AT on SportS vs 5 MT on WW-W?
b) Can anyone approximate value difference to the dealer of the factory 5 Sport S wheels vs WW-W (Rubi) Wheels?

Example one: If it is $150 difference on the tires, then I can buy a WW-W and assume dealer will eat mounting costs for his $150 benefit. If the factory MT WW-W tires are worth a lot more than than though, I might ask for something back?

or example 2:. If I get Sport S, is its likely a dealer at delivery would sell me WW-W/Rubi wheels for swap of Sport S wheels, plus $200, $400 or $600??? paid by me to him for differential and Sports S tire mounting onto those labor?

Any thoughts, info would be helpful. I want to concentrate on rough idea so I can negotiate cost given two possible methods right at delivery in ways that would be reasonable request to the dealer at lowest cost to me.

Thank you in advance.

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Old 08-19-2016, 09:33 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogen View Post
I'm deciding between WW-W and Sport S 2 door with exterior/mechanical features of the WW-W (LSD/3.73, etc). I don't mind the internals of the WW-W but they are of lower value to me.

My question arises due to personal preference on aesthetics of wheel and choice color combinations. My preference is Rhino with black WW-W wheels or possibly Billet with Aluminum wheels.


For reasons that are also personal I very much prefer the A/T tire that is stock on Sport S. The actual wheels and tires are the same size, and AT gives me virtually same clearance (9.7 vs 10) and will do as well on my off road ( lots of beach driving) and[plowed snow, and give me a better on-street ride and dynamics.

I So my questions has to do with negotiating dealer swapping stuff on purchase of vehicle.( I realize some of you guys sell stuff on crags, but I have little space to store five wheels or tires at the moment)

a) Can anyone approximate value difference to the dealer of the factory 5 AT on SportS vs 5 MT on WW-W?
b) Can anyone approximate value difference to the dealer of the factory 5 Sport S wheels vs WW-W (Rubi) Wheels?

Example one: If it is $150 difference on the tires, then I can buy a WW-W and assume dealer will eat mounting costs for his $150 benefit. If the factory MT WW-W tires are worth a lot more than than though, I might ask for something back?

or example 2:. If I get Sport S, is its likely a dealer at delivery would sell me WW-W/Rubi wheels for swap of Sport S wheels, plus $200, $400 or $600??? paid by me to him for differential and Sports S tire mounting onto those labor?

Any thoughts, info would be helpful. I want to concentrate on rough idea so I can negotiate cost given two possible methods right at delivery in ways that would be reasonable request to the dealer at lowest cost to me.

Thank you in advance.
I think that there is an easy solution here. Just order a Sport S in your color of choice with the 3.73 gears and a LSD. Doesn't that cover you?
That is what I have and I can ride on the beach down here all day with no issues (just turn off the traction control and air down to 20-25 and your good to go)
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:05 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

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Originally Posted by Chapelchilla View Post
I think that there is an easy solution here. Just order a Sport S in your color of choice with the 3.73 gears and a LSD. Doesn't that cover you?
That is what I have and I can ride on the beach down here all day with no issues (just turn off the traction control and air down to 20-25 and your good to go)
thanks, but that is not related at all to my question. I don't need instructions on how to drive on the beach or what mechanical aspects to get, I understand that all very very well. I already know exactly what specs I want.

Your method means for Rhino on Sport S with WW-W/Rubi wheels I have to spend $2,000 buying 5 wheels from morpar and having them swapped used at a shop, and throwing out my old wheels, and which makes the sport S the worst option for me. As I said I have nowhere to store wheels or tires to cragslist them. I want to do this before delivery.

I am instead asking about wheel and tire costs so I can approach the dealer during negotiations for a 2017 order and ask do this all before delivery so he has either new S wheels or New OWL tires that HE can sell or put on another car. I am in best position by knowing how much say new aluminum 17x7 1/2 are worth to a dealer if I buy Sport S, or alternately how much the new MT tires are worth to him if I buy a WW-W.

Once I drive off the lot both the tires and whleels are "used."
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Old 08-19-2016, 10:36 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

I don't have an answer to all of your questions, but my advice is to talk to a dealer (email would be easiest imo) and start compiling all of the prices and information that you're interested in and put it into a spreadsheet. That would get you the most accurate estimate.

I also imagine the costs associated with swapping wheels or tires at the dealership varies quite a bit by locations.


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Old 08-19-2016, 11:33 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

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Originally Posted by TLife76 View Post
I don't have an answer to all of your questions, but my advice is to talk to a dealer (email would be easiest imo) and start compiling all of the prices and information that you're interested in and put it into a spreadsheet. That would get you the most accurate estimate.

I also imagine the costs associated with swapping wheels or tires at the dealership varies quite a bit by locations.


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Thanks, I have it all on a spread sheet wiht every mandatory featue I want and what things I don't want are worth to me. For example I wodl not and VIC to Sport S for $700 but I give the VIC standaad on WW-W a value of $400 to me due some usefulness plus slight increasein resale (although I intend to drive it into the ground).

it comes out to a WW-W adding LED Side impact or Sport S with a bunch of options. they are pretty close.

The thing is I think the just as lighter billet looks to my eye a lot better with aluminum wheels, the darker Rhino I want looks way better to me with black WWW/Rubicon Wheels. I also know I want" the 32 AT tires over MT

So the issue of swapping out wheels on SS or tires on WWW is the only consideration left, and I'd rather not introduce it early into my negotiations given I am in ultimate sweet spot of non nonsense, no smoke and mirrors, purchase since it is no trade in, cash, factory order purchase which is nice and relaxed for me grabbing five or six dealers OTD by email done with misunderstand and the rest of the BS.

for most people this is solved with craigs list. for me not.

so knowing the approx. wholesale difference between the MT and AT tires and the Alum vs WWW wheels will help me give the dealer a bit extra for their labor, but not get taken.
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Old 08-20-2016, 06:53 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

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Originally Posted by Diogen View Post
Thanks, I have it all on a spread sheet wiht every mandatory featue I want and what things I don't want are worth to me. For example I wodl not and VIC to Sport S for $700 but I give the VIC standaad on WW-W a value of $400 to me due some usefulness plus slight increasein resale (although I intend to drive it into the ground).

it comes out to a WW-W adding LED Side impact or Sport S with a bunch of options. they are pretty close.

The thing is I think the just as lighter billet looks to my eye a lot better with aluminum wheels, the darker Rhino I want looks way better to me with black WWW/Rubicon Wheels. I also know I want" the 32 AT tires over MT

So the issue of swapping out wheels on SS or tires on WWW is the only consideration left, and I'd rather not introduce it early into my negotiations given I am in ultimate sweet spot of non nonsense, no smoke and mirrors, purchase since it is no trade in, cash, factory order purchase which is nice and relaxed for me grabbing five or six dealers OTD by email done with misunderstand and the rest of the BS.

for most people this is solved with craigs list. for me not.

so knowing the approx. wholesale difference between the MT and AT tires and the Alum vs WWW wheels will help me give the dealer a bit extra for their labor, but not get taken.
I was (still am) in a similar situation. I wanted a willys but they dont make it in hypergreen. I ordered a sport S with the willys mechanicals. Looking at used wheels now but I don't want to buy a second set of rims and then have sell the other set. From strictly a cost perspective this is the best option for us (yes I read your post).

I am probably going to plasti dip my wheels for now. Have you considered this or having the rims professionally painted black?

Based on the inflated MSRP of OEM wheels you want IMO no dealer is going to give you a deal. The only time I heard of dealers doing this is when they have a very good deal on their end.
I think you should keep the deal simple to get a better deal worry about the rims later, If you want to still try this go to a dealer that modifys new jeeps. Maybe they will work with you since they probably already have a way to sell the "take off" wheels when they upgrade.

where are you located? good luck!
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Old 08-20-2016, 08:56 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogen View Post
I am instead asking about wheel and tire costs so I can approach the dealer during negotiations for a 2017 order and ask do this all before delivery so he has either new S wheels or New OWL tires that HE can sell or put on another car. I am in best position by knowing how much say new aluminum 17x7 1/2 are worth to a dealer if I buy Sport S, or alternately how much the new MT tires are worth to him if I buy a WW-W.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antjmar View Post
Based on the inflated MSRP of OEM wheels you want IMO no dealer is going to give you a deal. The only time I heard of dealers doing this is when they have a very good deal on their end.
I think you should keep the deal simple to get a better deal worry about the rims later, If you want to still try this go to a dealer that modifys new jeeps. Maybe they will work with you since they probably already have a way to sell the "take off" wheels when they upgrade.
I have to agree with Antjmar.

The dealer will gladly charge you for the new wheels and tires, but the "take offs" are as worthless to them, as they are to you.

You don't want them. Do you really think there are other customers clamoring to "upgrade" their brand new Wrangler to what are simply base/stock wheels?

Even "new", if you think they are going to credit you MSRP (parts dept price) for the take offs, you aren't going into negotiations with a realistic expectation. To them, it doesn't matter if you need that large of a credit to afford to buy those must-have aftermarket wheels and tires.
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:14 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Antjmar View Post
I was (still am) in a similar situation. I wanted a willys but they dont make it in hypergreen. I ordered a sport S with the willys mechanicals. Looking at used wheels now but I don't want to buy a second set of rims and then have sell the other set. From strictly a cost perspective this is the best option for us (yes I read your post).

I am probably going to plasti dip my wheels for now. Have you considered this or having the rims professionally painted black?

Based on the inflated MSRP of OEM wheels you want IMO no dealer is going to give you a deal. The only time I heard of dealers doing this is when they have a very good deal on their end.
I think you should keep the deal simple to get a better deal worry about the rims later, If you want to still try this go to a dealer that modifys new jeeps. Maybe they will work with you since they probably already have a way to sell the "take off" wheels when they upgrade.

where are you located? good luck!
Yes keeping deal simple is a key aim for me since it is already will be factory order, cash, no trade in, so I literally don't have to suffer any BS.

This wheel/tire ssue is the only variable and going into it best knowing cost, marketability of the tires/wheels helps avoid muddying the deal too much.

If my preferred color were Billet, in my opinion I'd be set since the Sport S aluminum wheels coordinate well.

For me just getting the Willys and getting rid of the tires is especially bad since Airbags are mandatory item on my list, and Willys package on two forces you to go even higher to the Willys Wheeler "W" in order to get isde airbags, meaning the airbags cost me $1,300 on the Willys instead of $500 on Sport S. (WW-W is $2,100 more than WW, WW-W it has A/C worth $1,300 meaning a $800 price difference for no advantage except ability to add $500 airbags. $800+500=$1,300.

I understand that doing it after could sound like less of a hassle, but at the dealership before I drive it off, everything is new, and that heavy stuff is at a place where they have some value to the dealer. If a WWW he can take my MT and sell them as new to someone, if Sport he can take my rims and sell them I don't care if the dealer makes $300 or $400 off of swapping for his time/labor as overall it would work out best for me. That is why I wanted to nail down retail costs, wholesale costs and typical secondary market value so I could present a number to them that was not super high or super low, and would not be asking him to take a profit hit and not overpay either.

I commented on this thread on my findings so far on the Willeys' Wheel prices I could find.
Black wheels question
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:31 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

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Originally Posted by WaltA View Post
I have to agree with Antjmar.

The dealer will gladly charge you for the new wheels and tires, but the "take offs" are as worthless to them, as they are to you.

You don't want them. Do you really think there are other customers clamoring to "upgrade" their brand new Wrangler to what are simply base/stock wheels?

Even "new", if you think they are going to credit you MSRP (parts dept price) for the take offs, you aren't going into negotiations with a realistic expectation. To them, it doesn't matter if you need that large of a credit to afford to buy those must-have aftermarket wheels and tires.
You missed the point, I am going into the deal with realistic expectations by inquiring here and and researching best information on retail, wholesale and secondary market prices, costs and value of the two types of tires and two types of wheels.

And where did I say they should "credit MSRP"?? Do you see the title of my thread says "value" -- not "price" or "cost"? Set Price is MSRP. Selling "Price" is typcial 25-30% discount on MSRP for parts. cost is what Mopar/FCE sells to the dealer, and value is lower than that when taking into account demand. all those numbers are helpful but as I already said it is vladue to the dealer. Also Sport S casts offs, while substantially lower, Price, Cost and Value are of most value to Jeep dealers compared to their value to anyone else. From the replies I got it is clear, assuming WW wheels are cost to the dealer of $1,600, the new Sport S cast offs are worth at least $80 each/ $400 for five to them.

In fact I have gotten four responses from dealers now ranging from $1,300 to $2,000 to do this. These are already dealers I had sent 2017 inquires too and who are offering 4% to 7% below invoice (the 7% is coming from a state that allows $600 add on paper work and the 4% ae common from equal distance state that limits that to under $120, so those four are all already at under 1% of each other on price without wheel or tire swap).


I am not looking to recover 100% of the price differntial or 100% of the net cost to dealer differential. I am looking to recover 50% of dfferntial in costs, meaning the dealer actually makes a profit on the exchange and I achieve lower costs than driving off and buying the wheels I want after
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Old 08-20-2016, 09:40 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

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Originally Posted by Diogen View Post
In fact I have gotten four responses from dealers now ranging from $1,300 to $2,000 to do this. These are already dealers I had sent 2017 inquires too and who are offering 4% to 7% below invoice (the 7% is coming from a state that allows $600 add on paper work and the 4% ae common from equal distance state that limits that to under $120, so those four are all already at under 1% of each other on price without wheel or tire swap).
Great job. Keep up the good work.
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Old 08-20-2016, 10:16 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

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Great job. Keep up the good work.
Thanks. FYI Jeep dealers do have a use for 17" sport S casts offs, some buyers of 16" Jeeps may want an upgrade.

I want to reiterate that the Sport S-Willeys is different for me than many since it is mandatory Sport S vs Willys Wheeler "W" since I want airbags as the 2door JK has about the worse side impact numbers imaginable -- worse than JKU. So the price difference is not SS vs WW, or JKU SS -- but 2 door SS 3,73, LSD, A/C, side Airbag and nothing else vs 2 door WWW.. Give i do NOT want the MT tires, this is a much larger price difference than many JK SS vs WW or JKU SS vs WWW.

In my case the sport S with my needed options -- and buying the WW/WW-W wheels right from Mopar for $1,900 shipped is cheaper than WW-W added cost. I am just looking for a way to recover some portion of SS wheels while they are brand new, without having to craigslist them.

I am also still looking for tire differential price, cost and value so in case i do get WW-W I am best informed as to what ballpark number to expect from dealer for swapping out AT I wold bring, ie how much he would buy back brand new WW M/Ts in case I buy WW. he does have regular opportunity to add them to another Jeep as they are very standard 17s and once I drive off the lot they are no longer new, but lightly used and worth considerably less.
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Old 08-20-2016, 11:13 AM
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Re: Value differential on stock WW/Rub tires/wheels vs Sport S tires/Wheels

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Originally Posted by Diogen View Post
And where did I say they should "credit MSRP"?? Do you see the title of my thread says "value" -- not "price" or "cost"? Set Price is MSRP. Selling "Price" is typcial 25-30% discount on MSRP for parts. cost is what Mopar/FCE sells to the dealer, and value is lower than that when taking into account demand. all those numbers are helpful but as I already said it is vladue to the dealer. Also Sport S casts offs, while substantially lower, Price, Cost and Value are of most value to Jeep dealers compared to their value to anyone else. From the replies I got it is clear, assuming WW wheels are cost to the dealer of $1,600, the new Sport S cast offs are worth at least $80 each/ $400 for five to them.
I was continuing the thought of the one post I quoted from Antjmar, which brought up MSRP.

I think your cast offs' value is more in line with others will pay, and not so much what you speculator (hope) their value is to a dealer. Based on what I have seen on line of "asking" vs "offer", I still think you are being a bit optimist even at a Value of $400 for a set of Sport cast off wheels, as an offer from a dealer who would naturally need to mark them up for any profit.

Again, if you don't want/like the base wheels from a Sport, who many people can there be wanting to upgrade their new ride with them? That's their real value. Not some percentage off one might get from a parts dept.

Hay, if you can find someone to pay you $2,000 for a set of Sport take-off wheels, you'll have my admiration.
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