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  #13  
Old 04-04-2014, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by 14StormTrooper View Post

Only white one lol
I guess u have a point there!

Glad u found your tires! Lol

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  #14  
Old 04-05-2014, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Schleprock View Post
Tuning not available isn't what has killed the Viper. Last gen ZR1 kicking its ass, C7 Z51's beating it, overpriced, too many dealers ordering cars that Viper owners can't pick their own colors/options on. And when the C7 Z06 comes out, that car is going to absolutely murder the Viper. Mark it now, the C7 Z06 is going to be the best car in the world $$ to performance. Viper is a beautiful car, but it's price and performance don't match its intended pedigree. It's still an $80k price range car in its GTS form.

The C7 Z51 beat the new Viper GTS? And the Viper TA beat the ZR1. 80k would be an incredible deal considering the new Jeeps are 71.
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  #15  
Old 04-10-2014, 11:45 AM
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Re: 14 Granite SRT - Whose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schleprock View Post
Tuning not available isn't what has killed the Viper. Last gen ZR1 kicking its ass, C7 Z51's beating it, overpriced, too many dealers ordering cars that Viper owners can't pick their own colors/options on. And when the C7 Z06 comes out, that car is going to absolutely murder the Viper. Mark it now, the C7 Z06 is going to be the best car in the world $$ to performance.

Viper is a beautiful car, but it's price and performance don't match its intended pedigree. It's still an $80k price range car in its GTS form.
I wasn't clear in my post. No tuning is not all that has killed the new Viper, but it is something very important with previous Viper owners. My dad has had a few modified Vipers since 1998 and I've made a point to keep up with them and the community. There has been a max exodus ever since the Gen IV because of how difficult they are to tune. There are hundreds of potential owners who want to SC and TT their car. When they can't, they are forced to look elsewhere.

Furthermore, the Gen V did not get its' ass handed to it by the ZR1. It lost by a small margin because SRT did a shitty job and sent a car that wasn't ready. You are correct that SRT also botched the launch. That is part of it.

Despite what the internet might have you believe, the Corvette doesn't affect the Viper sales much at all. The Corvette and the Viper are not real competitors in my eyes. They only reason they've been pitted that way is they are America's top two sports cars. The FGT was a limited run so I discount that.

The Corvette is a heavily diluted sports car. It's hands down the best sports car for your money. To the car guy the ZR1 and Z06 look a lot different than the base vette, to the average person it doesn't. To the average person a vette is a vette and they are everywhere. The Vette is made for the average person who wants a sports car.

The Viper on the other hand is an American exotic. It is a very rare car that is not diluted at all. The Viper typically appeals to a different buyer. The Viper guy is the pariah. He doesn't care about the "competition". What the magazines and competitors laugh at, he loves. The Viper guy doesn't give a crap about active aero, carbon ceramic brakes, etc.

Enough with that though, from my experience and talks with former owners, this is the most significant part that has impacted Viper sales (or lack thereof): It's boring. It's a beautiful car. It's everything that the Gen III/IV should have been, but wasn't. The market however has changed and there are a LOT of options now in a similar price range. The Viper needed something radical to shake things up. The Viper faithful may not care about DCT, Carbon Ceramic, etc. but cross shoppers do. The Viper needs a more radical design. It needs to be at least 3-4 inches wider in the rear to balance out it's massive front. It needs at least 700NA HP. It needs a combination of earth shattering numbers and earth shattering looks.

For the price, you are wrong. $80k for a Viper is a joke. The Vette's build quality and paint isn't have as good as the Viper's. The Viper is easily a $120k car. Easily, and at that price it's a bargain. If the Viper had what I described above it would sell well even at $140k.

Sorry for the poorly written piece. I've been jumping back and forth while at work and haven't made sure everything flows or is written well.


PS. Neither of these are "supercars" and I cringe when people call anything under $600k a "supercar".
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  #16  
Old 04-14-2014, 06:16 PM
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Re: 14 Granite SRT - Whose?

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Originally Posted by A-kon View Post
I wasn't clear in my post. No tuning is not all that has killed the new Viper, but it is something very important with previous Viper owners. My dad has had a few modified Vipers since 1998 and I've made a point to keep up with them and the community. There has been a max exodus ever since the Gen IV because of how difficult they are to tune. There are hundreds of potential owners who want to SC and TT their car. When they can't, they are forced to look elsewhere.

Furthermore, the Gen V did not get its' ass handed to it by the ZR1. It lost by a small margin because SRT did a shitty job and sent a car that wasn't ready. You are correct that SRT also botched the launch. That is part of it.

Despite what the internet might have you believe, the Corvette doesn't affect the Viper sales much at all. The Corvette and the Viper are not real competitors in my eyes. They only reason they've been pitted that way is they are America's top two sports cars. The FGT was a limited run so I discount that.

The Corvette is a heavily diluted sports car. It's hands down the best sports car for your money. To the car guy the ZR1 and Z06 look a lot different than the base vette, to the average person it doesn't. To the average person a vette is a vette and they are everywhere. The Vette is made for the average person who wants a sports car.

The Viper on the other hand is an American exotic. It is a very rare car that is not diluted at all. The Viper typically appeals to a different buyer. The Viper guy is the pariah. He doesn't care about the "competition". What the magazines and competitors laugh at, he loves. The Viper guy doesn't give a crap about active aero, carbon ceramic brakes, etc.

Enough with that though, from my experience and talks with former owners, this is the most significant part that has impacted Viper sales (or lack thereof): It's boring. It's a beautiful car. It's everything that the Gen III/IV should have been, but wasn't. The market however has changed and there are a LOT of options now in a similar price range. The Viper needed something radical to shake things up. The Viper faithful may not care about DCT, Carbon Ceramic, etc. but cross shoppers do. The Viper needs a more radical design. It needs to be at least 3-4 inches wider in the rear to balance out it's massive front. It needs at least 700NA HP. It needs a combination of earth shattering numbers and earth shattering looks.

For the price, you are wrong. $80k for a Viper is a joke. The Vette's build quality and paint isn't have as good as the Viper's. The Viper is easily a $120k car. Easily, and at that price it's a bargain. If the Viper had what I described above it would sell well even at $140k.

Sorry for the poorly written piece. I've been jumping back and forth while at work and haven't made sure everything flows or is written well.


PS. Neither of these are "supercars" and I cringe when people call anything under $600k a "supercar".
Haviong owned two Vipers (04 & 06) bought new (Headers/Exhaust/Gears/Blower/Motons/Wheels, etc) the Reason I went back to Zo6's when the Gen 4 came out was tuning, period! I like to highly modify my cars for 800-1000hp and the new Vipers with their computers locked plain suck! Plus, when I bought my 06 new it was just over 99k, now the new ones are 140k? That took a lot of Ham-n-egger's like myself out of the market and put the Viper in the Porsche/Ferrari buyers market (Albeit the strrating price point of that market). I love the new interior of the Viper but not much else. Its too tame. The reason the Viper was so popular in the beginning was the cartoonish look.
Ive always loved the Viper and I "Felt Different" driving my modified Vipers vs my Modified Zo6's but SRT REALLY needs to get their shit together! I really like My Jeep SRT but when my lease is up in three years I will either be getting a fully Loaded Stingray and throwing a blower on it or a new ZO6 (Depending on price) and the wife wil be getting a new Jeep to haul my Mastiff and St Bernard.
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Old 04-14-2014, 09:58 PM
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Re: 14 Granite SRT - Whose?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A-kon View Post
I wasn't clear in my post. No tuning is not all that has killed the new Viper, but it is something very important with previous Viper owners. My dad has had a few modified Vipers since 1998 and I've made a point to keep up with them and the community. There has been a max exodus ever since the Gen IV because of how difficult they are to tune. There are hundreds of potential owners who want to SC and TT their car. When they can't, they are forced to look elsewhere.

Furthermore, the Gen V did not get its' ass handed to it by the ZR1. It lost by a small margin because SRT did a shitty job and sent a car that wasn't ready. You are correct that SRT also botched the launch. That is part of it.

Despite what the internet might have you believe, the Corvette doesn't affect the Viper sales much at all. The Corvette and the Viper are not real competitors in my eyes. They only reason they've been pitted that way is they are America's top two sports cars. The FGT was a limited run so I discount that.

The Corvette is a heavily diluted sports car. It's hands down the best sports car for your money. To the car guy the ZR1 and Z06 look a lot different than the base vette, to the average person it doesn't. To the average person a vette is a vette and they are everywhere. The Vette is made for the average person who wants a sports car.

The Viper on the other hand is an American exotic. It is a very rare car that is not diluted at all. The Viper typically appeals to a different buyer. The Viper guy is the pariah. He doesn't care about the "competition". What the magazines and competitors laugh at, he loves. The Viper guy doesn't give a crap about active aero, carbon ceramic brakes, etc.

Enough with that though, from my experience and talks with former owners, this is the most significant part that has impacted Viper sales (or lack thereof): It's boring. It's a beautiful car. It's everything that the Gen III/IV should have been, but wasn't. The market however has changed and there are a LOT of options now in a similar price range. The Viper needed something radical to shake things up. The Viper faithful may not care about DCT, Carbon Ceramic, etc. but cross shoppers do. The Viper needs a more radical design. It needs to be at least 3-4 inches wider in the rear to balance out it's massive front. It needs at least 700NA HP. It needs a combination of earth shattering numbers and earth shattering looks.

For the price, you are wrong. $80k for a Viper is a joke. The Vette's build quality and paint isn't have as good as the Viper's. The Viper is easily a $120k car. Easily, and at that price it's a bargain. If the Viper had what I described above it would sell well even at $140k.

Sorry for the poorly written piece. I've been jumping back and forth while at work and haven't made sure everything flows or is written well.


PS. Neither of these are "supercars" and I cringe when people call anything under $600k a "supercar".


So a 458 isn't a supercar? Get what you're saying but there are plenty supercars out there under 600k. I wouldn't consider a viper or a Vette one however.
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  #18  
Old 04-15-2014, 11:15 AM
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Re: 14 Granite SRT - Whose?

^ Not at all. 458 is an exotic.

Sports Cars: all 911 Porsches (except GT1), Corvettes, Mercedes SL, etc.

Exotics: 458, F12, Gallardo, Aventador, Viper, GTR, Ford GT, McLaren MP4-12C, SLS Mercedes, yes even a Lotus Elise, Audi R8, etc.

Supercars: Entry level - Carrera GT, McLaren Mercedes...Full Blown "Supercar" - McLaren P1 and F1, all Pagani and Koenigsegg, F40, F50, Enzo, LaFerrari, 911GT1, CLK GTR, SSC Ultimate Aero, etc.

The "supercar" term has been abused and used by the media as a way to hype things up. It's a marketing gimmick. Calling your Corvette ZR1 or Viper a "supercar" is a joke. Sure, your car may be faster than a supercar, but that doesn't make it a supercar.

It's kind of like a "super model". I don't care how hot or awesome your model girlfriend is, if she is modeling for JC Penney summer catalog she is not a "super model", she is a model.

The difference between sports car, exotic, and supercar is not the difference between greatness. The Corvette and 911 Porsches are the best all around sports cars made. They slay exotics and supercars. But they are on every corner, and are a dime a dozen. There is nothing exotic about them because they are everywhere. I won't even bother describing a supercar. You either get it, or you don't.

And for the whole "hypercar" thing, that has to be the dumbest forced buzzword I've ever heard. Some little kindergartener put it on a crappy drawing and the term was born. No such thing.
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