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  #13  
Old 07-23-2011, 05:50 PM
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Re: 6.4 Tuning ability?

I do have an basic understanding about the differences between a piggyback and full access, I was just asking why people are saying they cannot mod their jeeps without the ecu access. We had a similare problem with the Ford blackoak ecu several years ago and the piggyback gave us the tuning without the access. Once access was obtained the tuning and performance was much better, but the piggyback gave us a good interim solution. If these ECU's are encrypted with anything over 128bit, all I can say is good luck ever getting access, unless you put a lot of money, CPU power and time into cracking it. I guess car makers are doing this to stop people modifying the tuning and causing warranty claims from increased power/torque. This has been a point with out Ford XR6 Turbo's that can be increased 30% in power with just a tune. Will be interested to see what happens, as I would like to bump up the power of my CRD.
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  #14  
Old 07-23-2011, 06:08 PM
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Re: 6.4 Tuning ability?

Anything is hackable.
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Old 07-24-2011, 09:05 AM
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Re: 6.4 Tuning ability?

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Originally Posted by lll2for3lll View Post
Anything is hackable.
Hacking and decryption are two entirely different animals. They have already "hacked" into the ECM. The problem is the data is unrecognizable without the decryption key. Sure, there is a lot of FUD flying around the internet about security holes and people beating encryption but most of that are exploits of open source algorithm "holes".

The truth is that unless someone "discovers" the key, either through blind luck or a leak from the inside, decrypting the data once you have hacked into he box will be a long tome coming.

I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it's probably not going to happen overnight or without some help from the inside.

The latest i've read was the new ECM's include code that tracks every change in areas that can't be overridden. Even if they allow access the dealer systems will be able to identify any change and will immediately flag the VIN making warranty claims difficult if not impossible for any engine and trans related issues. If tuning is that important to you and you are willing to flush your warranty down the toilet then have at it. And before any of you Magnusson Moss devotees chime in, all the manufacturer needs to do is prove the code in the ECM has changed and unless you are willing to spend the cost of the vehicle again in legal fees you are SOL.
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Old 07-24-2011, 09:08 AM
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Re: 6.4 Tuning ability?

The first quote said that "it maybe unhackable".

And I said, "Anything is hackable."
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  #17  
Old 07-24-2011, 09:10 AM
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Re: 6.4 Tuning ability?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post
The latest i've read was the new ECM's include code that tracks every change in areas that can't be overridden. Even if they allow access the dealer systems will be able to identify any change and will immediately flag the VIN making warranty claims difficult if not impossible for any engine and trans related issues. If tuning is that important to you and you are willing to flush your warranty down the toilet then have at it. And before any of you Magnusson Moss devotees chime in, all the manufacturer needs to do is prove the code in the ECM has changed and unless you are willing to spend the cost of the vehicle again in legal fees you are SOL.
If this is the case, the key to the encryption should be in everyone's glove box. LOL...
What would be the reason of not releasing this, if all changes are trackable and therefore identifiable should a failure happen?
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Old 07-24-2011, 09:30 AM
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Re: 6.4 Tuning ability?

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Originally Posted by QuickOne View Post
If this is the case, the key to the encryption should be in everyone's glove box. LOL...
What would be the reason of not releasing this, if all changes are trackable and therefore identifiable should a failure happen?
I agree and there are some laws being floated in certain states that seek to address this issue. One of the legs the manufacturers have stood on is the historical data that shows previous exploits by talented tuners made the ECM look stock to their systems and they lose millions of dollars a year in bogus warranty claims. SEMA and others have argued that the manufacturers need to come up with a way to allow modification and still protect themselves since it's the right of the owner to modify the code that they OWN.

i've worked both sides of this street and honestly, I don't see how any rational person could argue that if you modify something a manufacturer has supplied why would you expect that manufacturer to stand by it. It is no longer the product they sold you.

Give me the keys to the lock box with the explicit understanding that I enter at my own risk but let me decide, don't force it on me.
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