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  #49  
Old 03-05-2016, 12:23 PM
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Re: Shifter

Unsubscribed. People in here writing books. Jeesh!

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  #50  
Old 03-05-2016, 01:13 PM
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Re: Shifter

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Originally Posted by Doc V. View Post
I understand, Illegal Machine.

You don't like the monostable shifter; therefore, it's "shitty." The NHTSA investigation focuses on .084% of all 2014-2015 Grand Cherokees, but that investigation is, in your way of thinking, sufficient to account for the replacement of the monostable shifter with the polystable shifter. There's "overwhelming" dislike of the monostable shifter, you claim, even though you can offer no proof of "overwhelming" dislike. The chicagonow.com "rant" doesn't offer any credible proof concerning the "overwhelming" dislike of the monostable shifter, but you believe that the "rant" serves as realistic proof for your position.

It's clear that you're confused about the pitfalls of reasoning ad verecundiam. The veracity of the source that, peculiarly, you won't name (but you hope that I and everyone who's interested in our debate know who that individual is) is immaterial. With a lack of constructive evidence to support your conclusions, you advocate a position (one apparently consistent with yours) attributed to another individual, haphazardly inferring that the conclusion that you're supporting is correct because someone else says so. Your methodology is flawed, Illegal Machine.

You could not have made it easier, Illegal Machine: the bait was easy to place, and your response was even easier to anticipate. I've already noted that you regularly exclude evidence which is inconsistent with the position that you're trying so diligently to support. Your reaction to my mention of Nurburgring lap times represents your approach to disconfirmatory evidence: you select the evidence which lends credence to your position and disregard any evidence with detracts from your position. (In this case and with a novel twist, you even resort to hyperbole.) You're an expert at special pleading, Illegal Machine. (Parenthetically, even though you're an authority on all things Nurburgring, where, I'm sure you realize, BMW, Porsche, et al., have their own testing facilities, you might want to research current Nurburgring lap times.)

Your methods, Illegal Machine, help you go wrong with confidence. I'm skeptical about your conclusions only because of the slipshod means that you have employed to produce ithem. After all, we can't let the Caped Crusader become the poster boy for sloppy thinking.
I don't see why you're going to such lengths to invalidate arguments against the monostable shifter. This is an online owner forum, nothing more.

I have never driven a vehicle with a shifter I thought was a poor design until I purchased this vehicle. I have never seen a forum with owners complain about the operation of a shifter in their vehicle until I came to discussion boards for this vehicle. I have never heard of, but also never looked for, hundreds of NHTSA complaints of very similar nature relating to the "poor" operation of a shifter until this vehicle (and other FCA products with this shifter). Property damage and injuries have been directly related to the operation of this shifter - had this shifter been at least a polystable shifter with traditional function, I would bet nearly all, if not all, of those incidents would have not occurred. That speaks miles beyond "driver preference."
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  #51  
Old 03-05-2016, 01:35 PM
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Re: Shifter

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Originally Posted by Nitemare3219 View Post
I don't see why you're going to such lengths to invalidate arguments against the monostable shifter. This is an online owner forum, nothing more.

I have never driven a vehicle with a shifter I thought was a poor design until I purchased this vehicle. I have never seen a forum with owners complain about the operation of a shifter in their vehicle until I came to discussion boards for this vehicle. I have never heard of, but also never looked for, hundreds of NHTSA complaints of very similar nature relating to the "poor" operation of a shifter until this vehicle (and other FCA products with this shifter). Property damage and injuries have been directly related to the operation of this shifter - had this shifter been at least a polystable shifter with traditional function, I would bet nearly all, if not all, of those incidents would have not occurred. That speaks miles beyond "driver preference."
It's so obvious and transparent why they made an abrupt change, it's hilarious.
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  #52  
Old 03-05-2016, 01:43 PM
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Re: Shifter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc V. View Post
I understand, Illegal Machine.

You don't like the monostable shifter; therefore, it's "shitty." The NHTSA investigation focuses on .084% of all 2014-2015 Grand Cherokees, but that investigation is, in your way of thinking, sufficient to account for the replacement of the monostable shifter with the polystable shifter. There's "overwhelming" dislike of the monostable shifter, you claim, even though you can offer no proof of "overwhelming" dislike. The chicagonow.com "rant" doesn't offer any credible proof concerning the "overwhelming" dislike of the monostable shifter, but you believe that the "rant" serves as realistic proof for your position.
How are auto critics having a kumbaya about how bad the Jeep's shifter is, not credible? Simply because you say so? That's convenient.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc V. View Post
It's clear that you're confused about the pitfalls of reasoning ad verecundiam. The veracity of the source that, peculiarly, you won't name (but you hope that I and everyone who's interested in our debate know who that individual is) is immaterial. With a lack of constructive evidence to support your conclusions, you advocate a position (one apparently consistent with yours) attributed to another individual, haphazardly inferring that the conclusion that you're supporting is correct because someone else says so. Your methodology is flawed, Illegal Machine.
So you admit you have no clue who the insider is on JeepGarage. Jeez.

There is nothing wrong with my reasoning. In fact, I think the only counterargument you've offered as to why they would swap the shifter is to boost sales.

Which is, absolutely hilarious.

You won't even admit how extremely rare it is for such a change to occur is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc V. View Post
You could not have made it easier, Illegal Machine: the bait was easy to place, and your response was even easier to anticipate. I've already noted that you regularly exclude evidence which is inconsistent with the position that you're trying so diligently to support. Your reaction to my mention of Nurburgring lap times represents your approach to disconfirmatory evidence: you select the evidence which lends credence to your position and disregard any evidence with detracts from your position. (In this case and with a novel twist, you even resort to hyperbole.) You're an expert at special pleading, Illegal Machine. (Parenthetically, even though you're an authority on all things Nurburgring, where, I'm sure you realize, BMW, Porsche, et al., have their own testing facilities, you might want to research current Nurburgring lap times.)
No. I'm just telling you exactly what has happend in the auto industry in the last 7-8 years. Automakers are moving away from Nurburgring lap times because they're wrought with fraud. They're not independing tests. Theyre conducted by the manufacturer.

I posted a test by motortred, where the vehicles are all tested by the same driver on the same track on the same day (that you conveniently ignored).
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  #53  
Old 03-05-2016, 11:47 PM
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Re: Shifter

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Originally Posted by Nitemare3219 View Post
I filed a complaint and I suggest you all do the same. There are a few hundred on there. While I'm not a huge fan of the look of the new shifter, it beats the crappy electronic one we have now. It is garbage and I hate it. Feels and sounds cheap, and is unnecessarily difficult to use (compared to every other car I've ever driven) - not to say it's actually hard, but I don't need to be worried if I shifted into the correct gear or not. Already had an incident myself where it rolled when I didn't want it to because I wasn't paying close enough attention to how many detents I had pushed the shifter when trying to park it.

Must be difficult to be so impatient . I mean you have two places to see what gear you are in. The dash shows you as well as the shift knob. Even if you screw up and it goes in reverse a big screen shows a photo of behind your jeep.

What we need to do is educated those who have difficulty learning new things and teach them to not be lazy. Many manufacturers utilize these shifting components so why are jeep owners to reluctant to learn something new.


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  #54  
Old 03-06-2016, 12:00 AM
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Re: Shifter

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Originally Posted by petey2133 View Post
Must be difficult to be so impatient . I mean you have two places to see what gear you are in. The dash shows you as well as the shift knob. Even if you screw up and it goes in reverse a big screen shows a photo of behind your jeep.

What we need to do is educated those who have difficulty learning new things and teach them to not be lazy. Many manufacturers utilize these shifting components so why are jeep owners to reluctant to learn something new.


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You missed my earlier post - I shouldn't HAVE to take my eyes off the road/surroundings to be 100% certain of what gear I am in. There should be zero chance of accidentally selecting the inappropriate gear when using tactile feedback for this reason - with this shifter, the chance is obviously there. And the backup camera does not immediately display on the screen - there is a slight delay, and again, requires taking eyes off the road/surroundings.

I'm 22 years old. I've been around technology my entire life. This is not about "learning" something new, because I know how the damn thing works. This is about a poor design which is a safety issue.
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  #55  
Old 03-06-2016, 07:31 AM
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Re: Shifter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitemare3219 View Post
You missed my earlier post - I shouldn't HAVE to take my eyes off the road/surroundings to be 100% certain of what gear I am in. There should be zero chance of accidentally selecting the inappropriate gear when using tactile feedback for this reason - with this shifter, the chance is obviously there. And the backup camera does not immediately display on the screen - there is a slight delay, and again, requires taking eyes off the road/surroundings.



I'm 22 years old. I've been around technology my entire life. This is not about "learning" something new, because I know how the damn thing works. This is about a poor design which is a safety issue.

I'm 23 and my wife is 21. Neither of us have to take our eyes off anything and have no issue.
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  #56  
Old 03-06-2016, 07:43 AM
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Re: Shifter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nitemare3219 View Post
I shouldn't HAVE to take my eyes off the road/surroundings to be 100% certain of what gear I am in. There should be zero chance of accidentally selecting the inappropriate gear when using tactile feedback for this reason .

So you are telling me that when you come to a complete stop lets say in a parking spot you feel that you should not HAVE to look down at the gear shift to see what gear you are in? You do realize that when you take a drivers exam that perform a "check list" of things you are supposed to do before you start driving. its fundamental.

You do NOT have to take your eyes off of anything. The same place where it tells you the speed tells you what gear you are in. Your argument is that its a safety concern to look around, my argument is that you should be outside before every drive checking your tire pressure, mirrors, fuel, turn signals and brakes. Thats if you're so concerned about your drive.

My brother has a new M3. A car built for a generation who was raised by technology. Its gear shifting mechanism far more confusing that ours and I am very active on bimmerpost and other forums and I see no one complaining.

Its so wild that there is no "park" you literally just shut the car off while in gear when stopped and the car locks itself in place. it has the exact same concept as the jeep and has been praised for years.

Some times you have to think outside the box. its coming. MORE and MORE manufactures are going this route, and just because you second guess it, doesnt mean others do too.
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  #57  
Old 03-06-2016, 09:32 AM
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Re: Shifter

Quote:
Originally Posted by petey2133 View Post
Must be difficult to be so impatient . I mean you have two places to see what gear you are in. The dash shows you as well as the shift knob. Even if you screw up and it goes in reverse a big screen shows a photo of behind your jeep.

What we need to do is educated those who have difficulty learning new things and teach them to not be lazy. Many manufacturers utilize these shifting components so why are jeep owners to reluctant to learn something new.
I agree! I have not had a single issue shifting in my '14 Overland! However, the new 2016 shifter & changing to a sport mode button is aweful! The shift knob looks cheap, the chrome lip looks cheap and the sport button . . . well that is a joke!
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  #58  
Old 03-06-2016, 07:18 PM
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Re: Shifter

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Originally Posted by Hemi2 View Post
I agree! I have not had a single issue shifting in my '14 Overland! However, the new 2016 shifter & changing to a sport mode button is aweful! The shift knob looks cheap, the chrome lip looks cheap and the sport button . . . well that is a joke!

Couldn't have said it better 👍🏼
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  #59  
Old 03-07-2016, 10:16 AM
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Re: Shifter

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi2 View Post
I agree! I have not had a single issue shifting in my '14 Overland! However, the new 2016 shifter & changing to a sport mode button is aweful! The shift knob looks cheap, the chrome lip looks cheap and the sport button . . . well that is a joke!

I've never been confused or unsure about which gear I'm in. I actually don't understand how folks can not know if they are in PARK.

My main problem with this shifter is the transition from DRIVE to REVERSE.

If you use too much force, you may end up in PARK.
If you use too little force, you may end up in NEUTRAL.

If you're trying to do this transition urgently or in an emergency (like to avoid a possible collision), then it is VERY EASY to potentially end up in the wrong gear. In fact, the user "antsjeep" wrote about an accident that resulted in damage to his WK2 because of this exact issue.



It is a POOR DESIGN.
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  #60  
Old 03-08-2016, 07:08 PM
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There's nothing wrong with my 2014 shifter. Takes some getting used to but works like any shifter. I find it laughable that people can't take responsibility for their own actions. Let's blame them next for my speeding tickets because the throttle is too responsive (Don't have any).
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