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  #49  
Old 09-23-2016, 08:53 AM
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Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

As a follow up, I had my tires rebalanced by the shop, which by the way got a brand new balancing machine. With the recommendations from this thread the shimmy is completely gone! It rides like silk now, as a '16 with brand new tires should. Thanks for the info guys!

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  #50  
Old 09-23-2016, 09:09 AM
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Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowbill27 View Post
As a follow up, I had my tires rebalanced by the shop, which by the way got a brand new balancing machine. With the recommendations from this thread the shimmy is completely gone! It rides like silk now, as a '16 with brand new tires should. Thanks for the info guys!
Glad you finally found a solution. I wish I would have known about this when I had my 2014, as I was still dealing with it when I traded for my 2017. Knoock on wood, my 2017 is fine but it's good to know it wasn't actually the tires, in most cases. BTW, where did you end up going to have this done?
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Old 09-23-2016, 09:15 AM
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Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

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Originally Posted by vnbWK2 View Post
Glad you finally found a solution. I wish I would have known about this when I had my 2014, as I was still dealing with it when I traded for my 2017. Knoock on wood, my 2017 is fine but it's good to know it wasn't actually the tires, in most cases. BTW, where did you end up going to have this done?
I gave the dealer one last shot and they got it right on the third try, it was pretty frustrating though. Way too much money to be dealing with this kind of stuff. I really try to be loyal to american cars but this type of stuff sure makes it tough. If the engine wasn't so sweet I don't think I would put up with half the run around! Every time I hit the start button though I kind of forget all the headaches I've had in the 2 months of ownership.
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  #52  
Old 10-14-2016, 11:53 AM
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Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

FYI - Believe these two docs should be added to TSB's 22-001-14 & 22-003-14


Reason: RoadForce and SmartWeight combined do a great job of identifying an opportunity to index the tire & wheel for a "more round" assembly and use less wheel weights by focusing on the "Static" unbalance. The problem is all the focus is on "Static" which is up and down movement of the assembly from an assembly and balance prospective. The opportunity of a Shimmy condition in our vehicles is extremely high after RoadForce and Smartweight since the focus of correction is on Static and leave a perceived acceptable amount of "Couple" Unbalance in every assembly.


I am attaching two documents which discusses the importance of mounting the wheel correctly to the balancer (#1 Reason for vibration related comebacks) and Residual Unbalance phenomenon (#2 Reason for vibration related comebacks). The reason these two things are so important is they are most common reason for the issue but also the most common issues that are ignored and not addressed. People should a whole lot less time worrying about RoadForce when they should be worrying about the basics. Unfortunately for most shops their equipment is doing the assumptions for them and so the right decisions on correcting for conditions can't be made properly. Customers should be asking shops if they have a Direct Drive Coats Machine with ProBalance Technology, Low Taper Collets, and Adjustable pin Plates. If they do then you are Good to go! Hope this info helps.





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  #53  
Old 11-06-2016, 01:55 PM
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I followed Hennessys advice and had my wheels balanced by a shop with a COATS balancer which they put in fine mode and took the weight correction down to .1 in addition they used the low tapper collets. Wheels are smooth at 75 now and this corrected what road force didnt. Thanks for thd advice Hennessy
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  #54  
Old 11-30-2016, 09:14 AM
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Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

Thanks for the feedback silvermax04!


Link to Direct Drive Balancer.
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Old 12-31-2016, 11:43 AM
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Smile Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

@Hennessy has the solution - THANK YOU SO MUCH!

Same story as the other guys here... Multiple trips to the dealer and the tire shop, balancing, wheel bearing (TSB) replacement, etc. "Must be the tires..." "Maybe it's the wheels..." "Why do you need to go above 65?"

Always the same result - heavy vibration (seats and steering) in the 65-80+ MPH range.

For months it's been frustrating. Every morning getting in my "dream vehicle" knowing the commute to work would be depressing rather than fun.

Your specific steps on the Hunter were the key to getting this fixed Hennessy. The tire shop (Atlantic Avenue Tire & Service in Raleigh) are good and they've done a lot of good work for me. But they just use Smart Mode and it just didn't find the shimmy.

I created a simple doc - copy and pasting Hennessy's instructions. They followed it, did some additional RoadForce adjustment and it's now driving like new.

Hennessy, thank you so much for taking the time to read these questions, find and post detail info and help us all out. You've taken a really frustrating and stressful situation and turned it around - something the dealer and shop could do alone.

THANK YOU SIR!
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  #56  
Old 01-04-2017, 12:36 PM
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Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

Thanks smartminion for the post, so glad you got your vibration fixed!


Thought I would add a Link to this thread even though not related, just thought it was cool!


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Old 01-16-2017, 07:33 AM
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Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

Wow. There is some really good, hardly ever found, information in this thread about proper tire balance. I am fanatical about tire balance and was cruising the net for information and came across this site.


Hennessy, is spot on in many ways here. Fact: You can balance an egg, but it won't roll down the road smoothly. Think about that. So, if the tire is not indexed on the rim correctly, it could create an out of round situation. Match the low/high spot of the tire with the low/high spot on the rim. If you have too perfect of a rim, though, it may not result in much improvement. Also, be sure the beads are seated properly. If they are not, they will mimic an out of round condition. Road Force reading are subjective: A snow tire should produce low road force figures - under 10 lbs. Think about it - they are soft and pliable. A low profile tire on a large rim? Not likely. They are harder, inflexible, and likely will result in higher road force figures. What's too high? Well, that depends on your vehicle. Vehicles with tight suspensions need lower road force figures. Larger vehicles with a suspension that isn't "sport tuned" can get away with higher road force figures. As an example, I run a 2014 Ford Explorer Sport. I can "feel" road force variation when the values are above 17lbs. Keep in mind that I'm in tune to the entire situation. Your average Joe may never notice it. My Blizzak snow tires road force at 4, 6, 8 7. My summer tires are Bridgestone and they are 8, 9, 12 and 17 I'm in the process of replacing the 17 now. My "standard" on this vehicle is 10lbs. or less. Again, it varies, widely, based on your vehicle. Don't assume road force is what is causing the shakes. You need to be certain what follows is done correctly before you assume an assembly with a road force figure of 17 is causing your "shakes."


Mounting the assembly - either use a bullseye collet from Hunter, or the appropriate adjustable collect from Haweka to BACKCONE the rim to the balancer. Tapered cones are hit or miss - mostly miss. Using a wingnut on the front is not as precise. You should insist on the use of a flange plate - a plate with fingers that mimic the mounting of the rim, by the lug nuts, to the hub. The idea with the cone, and the flange plate, is to exactly mimic the mounting setup you have on your car - hub bore and the lug nuts. If you don't, you're back to my analogy of the egg. You can balance an egg, but it won't roll down the road smoothly. YOU MUST BE CERTAIN THE ASSEMBLY IS CENTERED; OTHERWISE, EVERYTHING ELSE IS MOOT! Perform a centering check on the balancer before you move forward with road force and balance calculations.


Balance. Using a Hunter Road Force machine, turn OFF Smart (DUMB) Weight. Also, turn OFF the blind and rounding function. The balancer needs to be dialed in so it shows the TRUE static and couple readings. No rounding. Perform the balance in the standard mode - Smart (DUMB) Weight off, no rounding and no blind. Attach correction weights as indicated. Then, put the balancer in JUST static mode. If there is more than .25oz, apply correction weight based on the static output.


If you follow the above, you will have eliminated nearly 100% of the potential issues from the assembly (tire and rim) that lead to a vibration.


BE SURE THE ASSEMBLY IS CENTERED BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING!


If you discuss the above with a shop, and they stare at you, or try to talk you out of it, thank them for their time and quickly walk away. It will take some time to find someone that will go through this; however, once you do, you will be happy the FIRST time they balance/road force/index. Not after the 4th comeback.


Good luck!


Shumax
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  #58  
Old 01-16-2017, 10:18 AM
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Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

Thanks for your feedback Shumax.


I want to again bring up the key points to correcting for "Steering Wheel Shimmy" since that is what this thread is about.


1) FACT: Roadforce does NOT correct for "Steering Wheel Shimmy"


2) FACT: Smart Weight does NOT correct for "Steering Wheel Shimmy"


3) FACT: Poor Mounting Methods does NOT correct for "Steering Wheel Shimmy"


Roadforce is attempting to correct for "Up and Down" (Static) Vibration from the assembly. It looks at the tire and wheel and determines if they can be matched for a more round assembly. If the assembly is mounted to balancer wrong then you get a bad reading (approx. 60% of the time). If assembly is mounted to balancer correctly, back cone with a low taper collet and mounted with a pin plate to the wheel lug holes then diagnosis can be done correctly.


You don't need Roadforce to detect if your assembly has a potential excessive out of round condition. First there is the visual test and the second is if your Static Reading is high (Over 3oz) then that is a good indicator to index the tire and wheel 180 degrees to see if the Static Number is lowered. Since Coats uses the Direct Drive System they report down to 100th of an Ounce and it stays accurate because of no belts and pulleys to change the calibration. On a Hunter even in fine mode you can only take it down to a 10th of an Ounce. Simply put that is not enough accuracy at times for todays tire/wheel assemblies.


Smartweight is intentionally leaving residual Couple (Side to Side or Shimmy) in the tire/wheel assembly. Again turn it off!


Hopefully this info helps and informs the public about the misconceptions of Roadforce and Smartweight. All I want to see if happy Customers.


Thanks
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  #59  
Old 02-09-2017, 08:55 PM
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Re: Steering wheel shimmy anybody?

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