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  #13  
Old 05-13-2011, 09:45 PM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

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Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post
Owning a 2011 Overland and having towed over 5000 lbs more than 2500 miles I'm pretty sure the limiting factor is the same as it was on the old F-150 Lightnings, a combination of the spring rates and the tires, it's certainly not the drive train or the chassis.

The 5000 lbs is probably there because the suspension can only take 500 lbs of tongue weight without causing too much of a rear drop, front rise. The manufacturer can't spec a tongue weight less than 10% of the trailer weight so 500 lbs of tongue weight means a 5000 lb max trailer.

I was hoping they would put the rear helper airbags on the SRT8 when the tow package was ordered like they do on the 2WD WK2's which would add the spring rate needed to support 720 lbs tongue weight my Overland can support. If they are using the self leveling secondary air bags then I have no idea what the issue is.

Honestly, I think with a proper WDH and a well balanced trailer you would have no trouble towing an enclosed car hauler with a track car, just like the Porsche's and VW's do without air suspension. (or my 16' enclosed MC trailer )

Sounds good, yeah this is what I was leaning towards. All in all just means that the rear suspension is the limiting factor. Tires may play into it as well being runflats and performance tires at that. I didn't know about the 10% rule but yeah makes sense. Although the non air ride equipped jeeps can also handle the 7200lbs+ so they must have some sort of compensation in the rear.
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Old 05-13-2011, 11:30 PM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

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Originally Posted by cyanideg View Post
Your question should be, why is there a towing option at all? Im buying it for power, not to tow a boat.
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  #15  
Old 05-14-2011, 06:53 AM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

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Originally Posted by cyanideg View Post
Your question should be, why is there a towing option at all? Im buying it for power, not to tow a boat.
Aside from ALL of their competition having the capability the reality is a performance SUV MUST retain the SUV capabilities or it's a meaningless vehicle. If you want fast, there are a multitude of cars that will stomp on the SRT, if you want handling there are a multitude of cars that will stomp the SRT. If you want fast and need to haul something (like your track car, bass boat, toy hauler, etc) then the SRT and it's competition become your options. Luckily for Jeep, the only competition in this space costs much more money. The main reason the TBSS outsold the original SRT8 by a factor of 3 is because you could still use it as an SUV while getting some degree of performance. It wasn't cheaper, it didn't look better, it wasn't faster and it didn't out handle the SRT. I know first hand, I owned one ONLY because it was the only performance SUV that could still tow my boat and race trailer that didn't cost 6 figures.

Those here who actually think either of the SRT variants are sports cars simply don't have the experience to know what a real sports or GT car is! Trust me, I"ve owned 9 Porsches, 4 Vette's, 2 Ferrari's and various muscle cars in my 53 years. The only reason Performance SUV's and trucks exist is to provide some semblance of driving pleasure to people like me who need the utility.
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:00 PM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

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Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post
Aside from ALL of their competition having the capability the reality is a performance SUV MUST retain the SUV capabilities or it's a meaningless vehicle. If you want fast, there are a multitude of cars that will stomp on the SRT, if you want handling there are a multitude of cars that will stomp the SRT. If you want fast and need to haul something (like your track car, bass boat, toy hauler, etc) then the SRT and it's competition become your options. Luckily for Jeep, the only competition in this space costs much more money. The main reason the TBSS outsold the original SRT8 by a factor of 3 is because you could still use it as an SUV while getting some degree of performance. It wasn't cheaper, it didn't look better, it wasn't faster and it didn't out handle the SRT. I know first hand, I owned one ONLY because it was the only performance SUV that could still tow my boat and race trailer that didn't cost 6 figures.

Those here who actually think either of the SRT variants are sports cars simply don't have the experience to know what a real sports or GT car is! Trust me, I"ve owned 9 Porsches, 4 Vette's, 2 Ferrari's and various muscle cars in my 53 years. The only reason Performance SUV's and trucks exist is to provide some semblance of driving pleasure to people like me who need the utility.

pics???
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  #17  
Old 05-14-2011, 04:33 PM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

Here's a few, I haven't digitized a lot of the older ones from the 80's and the 90's. Oh, and I towed that boat with the Lighting (that's a friend's Dually). The Cayenne and the Overland were purchased after I sold the boat.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg P8270051_sm.JPG (89.5 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg 930_640.jpg (126.2 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg quarter_lower.jpg (146.7 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg rear_pair_1024.jpg (297.9 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg P1010014.JPG (180.2 KB, 24 views)
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  #18  
Old 05-15-2011, 10:12 PM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

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Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post
Here's a few, I haven't digitized a lot of the older ones from the 80's and the 90's. Oh, and I towed that boat with the Lighting (that's a friend's Dually). The Cayenne and the Overland were purchased after I sold the boat.
nice, love love that Porsche 964 or is that a 965? Either way, remind of the badboys porsche, that thing was clean, classy and very quick haha. Like the SVT as well and that boat was probably some fun. My father used to have an older Chris Craft with the twin big blocks, think they were 454s but Im not positive. Was very fast boat for its time, that thing used to move from the few rides I remember as a kid, on the water it seemed double as fast haha.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:19 AM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

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Originally Posted by soontobesrt View Post
nice, love love that Porsche 964 or is that a 965? Either way, remind of the badboys porsche, that thing was clean, classy and very quick haha. Like the SVT as well and that boat was probably some fun. My father used to have an older Chris Craft with the twin big blocks, think they were 454s but Im not positive. Was very fast boat for its time, that thing used to move from the few rides I remember as a kid, on the water it seemed double as fast haha.
It's a 930...86-89...I'm gonna guess an 87

Is that an authentic RUF front valance?
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Old 05-16-2011, 10:25 AM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

I never even cared to look at the tow rating of either car when making my decision to buy. It was simply the fact that the Jeep was way more bad ass looking and it kicked the TBSS's. butt in performance. Oh, the TBSS's were way cheaper than the SRT also. MSRP may have been the same but they sold for way less cash than the Jeep and still do. They also only sold more TBSS's because they produced more. Jeep didn't have any problem selling all eleven or so thousand they made. They just wiant the name to sell more units than the last time. I see TBSS's ALL the time, that's why they blow!

One more thing, the WK SRT is a sports car! When my SUV can blow your sports cars nuts off, I can call it what I want. What the hell do those sports cars you speak of have better than the Jeep? Ok, its a Ferrari, which means its an outrageously overpriced 400hp car. I still remember the first Ferrari I rolled on at a stop light. I said nice car, he said same to you and then reved his engine at me. I asked if he really wanted to go, and his response was classic. He said " I'm not stupid, I know what that thing will do and I'm not looking to get embarassed by an SUV". So real sports car that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjw930 View Post
Aside from ALL of their competition having the capability the reality is a performance SUV MUST retain the SUV capabilities or it's a meaningless vehicle. If you want fast, there are a multitude of cars that will stomp on the SRT, if you want handling there are a multitude of cars that will stomp the SRT. If you want fast and need to haul something (like your track car, bass boat, toy hauler, etc) then the SRT and it's competition become your options. Luckily for Jeep, the only competition in this space costs much more money. The main reason the TBSS outsold the original SRT8 by a factor of 3 is because you could still use it as an SUV while getting some degree of performance. It wasn't cheaper, it didn't look better, it wasn't faster and it didn't out handle the SRT. I know first hand, I owned one ONLY because it was the only performance SUV that could still tow my boat and race trailer that didn't cost 6 figures.

Those here who actually think either of the SRT variants are sports cars simply don't have the experience to know what a real sports or GT car is! Trust me, I"ve owned 9 Porsches, 4 Vette's, 2 Ferrari's and various muscle cars in my 53 years. The only reason Performance SUV's and trucks exist is to provide some semblance of driving pleasure to people like me who need the utility.
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  #21  
Old 05-16-2011, 02:29 PM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

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Originally Posted by P-Dawger View Post
It's a 930...86-89...I'm gonna guess an 87

Is that an authentic RUF front valance?
'89 with a real RUF front Valance, good eye
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2011, 03:26 PM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

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Originally Posted by chucktownsrt8 View Post
I never even cared to look at the tow rating of either car when making my decision to buy. It was simply the fact that the Jeep was way more bad ass looking and it kicked the TBSS's. butt in performance. Oh, the TBSS's were way cheaper than the SRT also. MSRP may have been the same but they sold for way less cash than the Jeep and still do. They also only sold more TBSS's because they produced more. Jeep didn't have any problem selling all eleven or so thousand they made. They just wiant the name to sell more units than the last time. I see TBSS's ALL the time, that's why they blow!

One more thing, the WK SRT is a sports car! When my SUV can blow your sports cars nuts off, I can call it what I want. What the hell do those sports cars you speak of have better than the Jeep? Ok, its a Ferrari, which means its an outrageously overpriced 400hp car. I still remember the first Ferrari I rolled on at a stop light. I said nice car, he said same to you and then reved his engine at me. I asked if he really wanted to go, and his response was classic. He said " I'm not stupid, I know what that thing will do and I'm not looking to get embarassed by an SUV". So real sports car that!
No, they didn't sell all the WK SRT8's they built, there are still brand new '10 SRT's on dealer lots selling for less than $40K, a friend just bought one and said he had a few to choose from and I looked at them a couple times over the last few years and never had a problem finding one in stock or with discounting.

The whole issue of what it's called boils down to all the whining about it being tow capable. What does it matter as long as it doesn't diminish it's capabilities?????? Is it just because you can't get the boy racer center exhaust?????
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Old 05-16-2011, 05:57 PM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

I love the "Boy Racer" center exhaust, it's what made the Jeep popular in the first place. It set it aside from the TBSS in looks as well as performance. So are the vette's, lambo's and gen. 2 GTS Vipers sporting boy racer exhausts as well? I don't happen to see too many Honda kids rockin those these days.

What it comes down to is that Jeep should have made two options for the new SRT. One that had towing/sport capabilities and one that was an all out performance and reduced weight option. I undestand there are people that want a dual capable vehichle and to each their own. I on the other hand want an SUV that has room to carry some $hit and people when I care to, but also can be an all out bad a$$ performer when it's just me. I love having things that are different and out of the ordinary. Especially an SUV that can beat or keep up with most of the sports cars out there. Every swinging wang has a mustang, so why would I want one?

Also, I'm sure their are some Jeeps still on the lots. All I was saying is that they didn't have a huge problem getting rid of them. I'm sure there are some numbers on WKJeeps somewhere, but I bet that percentage wise, the Jeeps outsold the TBSS by a long shot. Do a search for TBSS's and one for the Jeeps and see how many are for sale between the two.
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  #24  
Old 05-16-2011, 09:28 PM
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Re: Why is the towing capacity so low?

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Originally Posted by chucktownsrt8 View Post
I'm sure there are some numbers on WKJeeps somewhere, but I bet that percentage wise, the Jeeps outsold the TBSS by a long shot. Do a search for TBSS's and one for the Jeeps and see how many are for sale between the two.
Get a 4 door CTS-V. You don't need an SUV.

And we went over the numbers already. There are 3X as many TBSS's than SRT8's. So when you look for how many are for sale, consider 33,000 vehicles made over 3 years (TBSS) vs 11K for 4 years of the Jeep. Also remember that 3,000 of that 11K Jeeps are 2010's. Only one year old.
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