Thanks for the pics dmcjjeep. The rear are definetly standard style air bags/ air springs. I still can't define whether the front are that type and just collapsed in the pic or whether it's a hybrid.
So what does "closed system" mean exactly (not just on WK2)? That air is pumped in and then it is "welded shut" forever and never needs replenishing? I just find it hard to believe - doesn't air always find a way out, sooner or later?
its a pressurized system where the air is pumped back and forth from the air springs to the tank. I'm sure there is a way to relieve the pressure to service etc.
while the system is nice, can't help but to think of BMW X5's had issues with the air suspension, many 2003-2006 Mercedes had issues with air suspension, from control modules, to leaking air, to pumps, what would make this system as reliable as a shock/spring setup available in the Limited? not to mention 1st year production, spells to me like get ready to be in the shop
There's always more risk when you're talking about a relatively complicated suspension system. You're right that there are control modules, tanks, pumps, etc. that all have the potential to fail. On the other hand, conventional coil springs are very reliable, but they do tend to droop/sag over time. Fortunately, they are easy and inexpensive to replace.
If you're really worried about reliability, just skip the air suspension and go with the coil springs instead.
If you don't plan on off-roading, the springs are probably the way to go. I plan on taking my Jeep to Moab, and want the ability to raise it when I need to, without having to drive on the highway the other 99% of the time with a permanent lift that will negatively affect the handling and increase the rollover risk.
Drove my 2012 Laredo X QT2 Hemi off the lot yesterday! It is fantastic-dealer trade and they gave me the chrome ltd 18s. Oversite on my part did not get the Adventure Group 2 so I dont have the QuadraLift. Am I going to miss it? Dont plan on any 4wheelin for a while as it is too expensive except for snow but last year we didnt have any-2 years before record 30" or something crazy for the south-Oklahoma City.
I like good handling better than smooth ride. Maybe I will get it when I get the 2015 diesel!
Bouncy (Dolphin) ride in 2014 Laredo when towing 2.5t caravan. Does anyone know how to firm up the rear suspension? Its a Quadra Lift and I keep getting told you cant do anything to it. Can i increase the pressure? Will reducing the normal height improve firmness? Will a change to 20" wheels change things? I am in Brisbane.
Bouncy (Dolphin) ride in 2014 Laredo when towing 2.5t caravan. Does anyone know how to firm up the rear suspension? Its a Quadra Lift and I keep getting told you cant do anything to it. Can i increase the pressure? Will reducing the normal height improve firmness? Will a change to 20" wheels change things? I am in Brisbane.
What Bill said...and if your caravan weighs more than about 3500 lbs, you should also be using a weight distributing hitch (WDH) to insure your vehicle stays balanced. QL alone might keep it "physically level", but it doesn't help with balance issues.
Yes, I have WDH and Anti Sway Bar fitted. Ball weight at 150kg. ESC in caravan has come on about 3 times on only marginally bumpy roads. The car and van are dead flat when in sports mode or above 90km/h. I have bee toying with adding an additional water tank to the front of the van, and additional 80kg but thinks I need the car sorted first.
Yes, I have WDH and Anti Sway Bar fitted. Ball weight at 150kg. ESC in caravan has come on about 3 times on only marginally bumpy roads. The car and van are dead flat when in sports mode or above 90km/h. I have bee toying with adding an additional water tank to the front of the van, and additional 80kg but thinks I need the car sorted first.
The suggestions also include adding a water tank (80kg), putting independent suspension in the van, adding 20" wheels, or replacing the car with a Limited without Quadra Lift.
So your tongue weight should be between 225 to 280kg.
I wouldn't be looking for problems with the tow vehicle before I got the weight distribution sorted out.
On some trailers it is possible to move the axel forward or back to shift weight off or onto the tongue.
From Jeep owner's manual;
"Trailer And Tongue Weight
Always load a trailer with 60% of the weight in the front of the trailer. This places 10% of the GTW on the tow hitch of your vehicle. Loads balanced over the wheels or heavier in the rear can cause the trailer to sway
severely side to side which will cause loss of control of the vehicle
and trailer. Failure to load trailers heavier in front is the
cause of many trailer collisions. Never exceed the maximum
Since the tongue weight is a known issue in your case, I would strongly recommend taking care of that issue first. Removing the WDH doesn't seem like an appropriate solution at all.
Maybe, just as a test, you can get some bags of sand, concrete, or other heavy items and load them into the caravan until you have the right tongue weight. Take it for a ride and see what happens. If it doesn't solve the problem you can just take them out and move on to something else. If it does solve the problem, as I believe it will, you can then look for a permanent method to distribute the weight.
Your water tank idea sounds pretty good. That way depending on what other cargo you have on board, you can adjust the tongue weight by adding or removing water.
Well that spec is likely based on what an appropriate ball weight would be for a trailer that heavy overall. A WDH redistributes the ball weight, not the total trailer weight. As mentioned, the ball weight is disproportionately low, so it's not entirely ridiculous to try without the WDH effectively unweighting things further. It perhaps exploits the rebound performance of the suspension as the trailer lifts the rear of the car over undulations?
Theories aside, I agree that step one has got to be getting the ball weight right. A water tank, if valved so you can choose whether you draw from it or the other tank/s, does provide good scope to manage the varying fore and aft weight of the caravan.
Anecdotally, our new caravan was a bit light up front and seemed to porpoise the car quite significantly when towing it home from the dealer. However given consideration, it was fully liquid loaded just behind the axle and most of the unused dry storage is well ahead of the axle... so it became more correctly balanced as I loaded it up. In subsequent use it behaved much better.
Regarding the questions posed... higher should be firmer with QL, but that's not much use in practice as you automatically get Aero above 80km/h. Changing to 20" is unlikely to make a difference... unless your 18"s are grossly under-inflated.
I will make calls tomorrow to Jayco first. Adding weight by an additional water tank sounds logical but means I carry 80kg for the sake of it where loading the van differently may change things. I just don't think I have 80kg of stuff to move forward. Jeep wanted a test drive today with a couple of different setups but that is too difficult.
I really cant do anything until we head out for a trip next week. It appears I am going to be trialling setups on the road. Not ideal.
Tyres in Jeep are at 36lb with nitrogen, so should be stable. I will up them to 38 before we go.
So my steps will be:
1. Tyres to 38
2. Check ball weight
3. Determine whether to run without WDH and only Sway bar
4. Trial with and without WDH and or sway bar
5. Trial in sport mode only
6. Get price to change over to a non Quadra lift version
I have quadralift on my 4x4 Summit. I like it, but man is it an "america tuned" ride. The little M-B GLK we have has a nice but firm ride. Really wish "sport" firmed it up but it doesn't. My favorite setting is Off-Road1. I like the firmness of that setting, but alas it goes away after a certain MPH (50 mph is it?).
Well you got to the question where I started.
How do you increase the firmness of the ride in 'normal' mode.
Does not appear to be possible and it appears the common response is that any changes are not recommended by Jeep.
The only concession I have obtained is that it is possible to lower the normal mode, which I did see somewhere in one of these threads. Again the warning was not recommended.
Jayco advised today that they believe the ball weight is 180kg and they would expect me to add 480kg to the van offering about 48kg to the ball weight. They believe the WDH and air suspension are fighting each other and have had one other van where removal of the WDH improved the travel.
I will just have to wait until I am on the road, and if possible get the ball weight measured.
Apolgies if I'm misunderstanding, but I thoroughly recommend that you do some short trips away with your new set-up... or just go for a few test drives. My neighbours have probably been having a giggle at the lame local destinations we are caravanning to on the weekends, however each trip refines the set-up and leaves me with a list of tweaks to make before next time.
I wouldn't like to set off on a longer trip without being absolutely 100% confident with how the assembly will tow.
In a perfect world that would be my preference. Getting assistance and attaching wheelmpositioning jacks to manually turn around 2.5t doesnt give me much option here. Once out I am out I just want to keep going. I know I can tow, just trying to make it more comfortable.
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