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grif82 01-04-2011 05:50 PM

Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
Ford has finally shelved its Triton V8s in favor for its all new 5.0L DOHC V8 (code-named "coyote") and 6.2L SOHC V8 ("boss"). GM also has plans to release its new Vortec gen.V V8s within the next couple of years. Some rumors even have these new GM engines going to OHC design.

Not saying the Hemi is a bad engine. It's been great for years. Maybe it just needs to be updated or scrapped all together in favor for a smaller more fuel efficient V8 and a larger variant for towing/hauling. Does anybody know of any plans post-Hemi?

Bmwister 01-04-2011 06:50 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
In the end it may not matter. V8s? Hmmm...I foresee a true hybrid poweplant consisting of an efficient turbine engine running a generator to power electric motors just like our modern locomotives do. It's ridiculous to complicate such a simple concept by adding a mass of batteries to the equation like we're trying to do with cars like the Prius, Volt and their ilk...and for greatly reduced usability.

I've never been a "Hey has that thing gotta Hemi?" kind of enthusiast, but the Hemi OHV design is relatively simple, solid, proven and inexpensive to maintain/rebuild compared to its OHC competition. Going to an OHC design opens a large realm of possibilities, but then so does cost and for what performance gain does that cost bring? I don't see the bang-for-the-buck economic payback in changing the Hemi V8 design unless it is purely for meeting some EPA-induced pipe dream.

Given ever-intruding government regulations that try to protect us from innate stupidity and ever-stringent fuel economy dictations (and some demand from consumers), we may have to give up some performance to meet the politically correct crash-worthy/MPG ratio. Heavier vehicles are the result of government crash standard requirements, so economy suffers from making more power to maintain performance. Hopefully, the turbine-generator/electric motor powerplant can move us forward another century with sufficient performance and economy. My 2 bits anyway.

grif82 01-04-2011 07:12 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwister (Post 328435)
In the end it may not matter. V8s? Hmmm...I foresee a true hybrid poweplant consisting of an efficient turbine engine running a generator to power electric motors just like our modern locomotives do. It's ridiculous to complicate such a simple concept by adding a mass of batteries to the equation like we're trying to do with cars like the Prius, Volt and their ilk...and for greatly reduced usability.

I've never been a "Hey has that thing gotta Hemi?" kind of enthusiast, but the Hemi OHV design is relatively simple, solid, proven and inexpensive to maintain/rebuild compared to its OHC competition. Going to an OHC design opens a large realm of possibilities, but then so does cost and for what performance gain does that cost bring? I don't see the bang-for-the-buck economic payback in changing the Hemi V8 design unless it is purely for meeting some EPA-induced pipe dream.

Given ever-intruding government regulations that try to protect us from innate stupidity and ever-stringent fuel economy dictations (and some demand from consumers), we may have to give up some performance to meet the politically correct crash-worthy/MPG ratio. Heavier vehicles are the result of government crash standard requirements, so economy suffers from making more power to maintain performance. Hopefully, the turbine-generator/electric motor powerplant can move us forward another century with sufficient performance and economy. My 2 bits anyway.

A turbine-generator/electric motor powerplant? WOW, sounds awesome! Don't know much about them. What are the possible performance numbers in relation to size and fuel efficiency?

I also agree with you in regards to OHC vs OHV design. OHV engines have a great track record and are cheap and easy to produce. Although, OHC designs offer more possibilities when it comes to valve timing and the availability of more power throughout a wider band.


PS: Wouldn't mind seeing a 5.0L DOHC twin-turbo V8 in a future JGC SRT8 in excess of 550 hp/550tq while getting 20 mpg or better hwy:D

MSCA 01-04-2011 07:20 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
The new 5.0L Ford engine is fantastic. I finally got a chance to drive a new Mustang 5.0 and it's really smooth and so powerful. Makes my old 5.0L Mustang seem like an economy car. The new engine will do well in other Ford vehicles I'm sure...

grif82 01-04-2011 07:27 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MSCA (Post 328447)
The new 5.0L Ford engine is fantastic. I finally got a chance to drive a new Mustang 5.0 and it's really smooth and so powerful. Makes my old 5.0L Mustang seem like an economy car. The new engine will do well in other Ford vehicles I'm sure...

I bet it is. I'm kind of curious about the new 5.0s in the 2011 F-150s getting ready to roll out. Should be a great all around engine.

Repo503 01-04-2011 07:55 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
I drove a 6.2 Raptor on the dunes a month or two ago and thought it was pretty nice.

However I doubt we'll see too many more hemi revisions. I am pretty certain once they add direct injection and maybe a twin turbo or variable vane turbo to the pentastar the hemi will be dropped from everything not wearing a Ram or SRT badge. This will happen for two reasons; rising fuel prices hence less customer demand, and tightening CAFE requirements.

V8s will mostly disappear from consumer vehicles over the next 10 years with higher output 6s taking their place. Not really a bad thing in my book as long as you aren't losing much power. V8s will largely only exist in highend status cars and commercial vehicles that are CAFE exempt.

What I would really like them to do is replace the 5.7 with a 3.0 modern turbo diesel. A diesel is ideal for this type of vehicle, alas the marketplace is tainted with bad memories of GMs diesels of the 1980s and I'm sure the recent diesel cherokee did nothing to alleviate that.

grif82 01-04-2011 08:28 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Repo503 (Post 328459)
I drove a 6.2 Raptor on the dunes a month or two ago and thought it was pretty nice.

However I doubt we'll see too many more hemi revisions. I am pretty certain once they add direct injection and maybe a twin turbo or variable vane turbo to the pentastar the hemi will be dropped from everything not wearing a Ram or SRT badge. This will happen for two reasons; rising fuel prices hence less customer demand, and tightening CAFE requirements.

V8s will mostly disappear from consumer vehicles over the next 10 years with higher output 6s taking their place. Not really a bad thing in my book as long as you aren't losing much power. V8s will largely only exist in highend status cars and commercial vehicles that are CAFE exempt.

What I would really like them to do is replace the 5.7 with a 3.0 modern turbo diesel. A diesel is ideal for this type of vehicle, alas the marketplace is tainted with bad memories of GMs diesels of the 1980s and I'm sure the recent diesel cherokee did nothing to alleviate that.

I think you're right when it comes to turbo V-6s replacing V8s for SUVs, some performance cars, and even half-ton pickups in the near future. Ford's new 3.5L TT V6 is proving to be one hell of an engine when put into the F-150. Matter of fact, in recent test while towing a 9000lb trailer, it smoked the Dodge Hemi and Chevy 5.3L Silverado thanks to most of its 420 ft lbs of torque being available starting at 1500 rpm.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Hn2ciMjqM

Man, I wish that kind of powertrain would be available in the 2011 JGC.:D


Diesels, while providing monster torque and great fuel economy, unfortunately have high up-front cost. Not to mention, in the US and unlike Europe, the majority of our refineries are geared towards producing gasoline and not diesel. Along with the mandates for ultra-low sulfur diesel and the extra cost involved in its production, this is the reason diesel remains more or just as expensive as super-unleaded gas.

UNCjeepWK2 01-04-2011 08:48 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
But Ford sissified the new Explorer with the turbo-4 and I6... no more V8 offered. Credibility, shot.

ostroveni 01-04-2011 09:00 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grif82 (Post 328471)
I think you're right when it comes to turbo V-6s replacing V8s for SUVs, some performance cars, and even half-ton pickups in the near future. Ford's new 3.5L TT V6 is proving to be one hell of an engine when put into the F-150. Matter of fact, in recent test while towing a 9000lb trailer, it smoked the Dodge Hemi and Chevy 5.3L Silverado thanks to most of its 420 ft lbs of torque being available starting at 1500 rpm.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Hn2ciMjqM

Man, I wish that kind of powertrain would be available in the 2011 JGC.:D


Diesels, while providing monster torque and great fuel economy, unfortunately have high up-front cost. Not to mention, in the US and unlike Europe, the majority of our refineries are geared towards producing gasoline and not diesel. Along with the mandates for ultra-low sulfur diesel and the extra cost involved in its production, this is the reason diesel remains more or just as expensive as super-unleaded gas.

Pentastar future plans include a 3.2 liters with Direct Injection planed to be used by JGC. Also, "a twin turbo and single-turbocharger version are planned, for introduction by 2014; both would be based on the smallest size (3.0 liters) and might be slated for limited-production models (e.g. a new Viper based on a Maserati or an SRT mid-sized car). The twin-turbo version appears to projected for a whopping 420 horsepower while the single-turbo appears to be set for 370 hp. "

grif82 01-04-2011 09:01 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UNCjeepWK2 (Post 328481)
But Ford sissified the new Explorer with the turbo-4 and I6... no more V8 offered. Credibility, shot.

I agree with the new Explorer being sissified. IMO, I think it looks like crap. Only offering the turbo-4 and the non-turbo V6 is a mistake. If you're not going to have the new 5.0 V8 as an option, at least have the TT V6 as one. Although, I think Ford will eventually have the TT V6 as an option.


IMO, Ford's new 3.5L TT V6 > Ford's new 5.0L V8. The amount of torque available throughout its RPM band is unrivaled.

http://easycaptures.com/fs/uploaded/304/6426154607.jpg

http://http://easycaptures.com/fs/up...8281511866.jpg

grif82 01-04-2011 09:14 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ostroveni (Post 328486)
Pentastar future plans include a 3.2 liters with Direct Injection planed to be used by JGC. Also, "a twin turbo and single-turbocharger version are planned, for introduction by 2014; both would be based on the smallest size (3.0 liters) and might be slated for limited-production models (e.g. a new Viper based on a Maserati or an SRT mid-sized car). The twin-turbo version appears to projected for a whopping 420 horsepower while the single-turbo appears to be set for 370 hp. "

Hopefully they'll have the twin-turbo V6 as standard or an option in the 2014 Overland. 420hp and about the same amount of torque throughout the entire band would be awesome!:D

Repo503 01-05-2011 04:27 PM

Re: Future Chrysler/Jeep V8s
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grif82 (Post 328471)
I think you're right when it comes to turbo V-6s replacing V8s for SUVs, some performance cars, and even half-ton pickups in the near future. Ford's new 3.5L TT V6 is proving to be one hell of an engine when put into the F-150. Matter of fact, in recent test while towing a 9000lb trailer, it smoked the Dodge Hemi and Chevy 5.3L Silverado thanks to most of its 420 ft lbs of torque being available starting at 1500 rpm.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1Hn2ciMjqM

Man, I wish that kind of powertrain would be available in the 2011 JGC.:D


Diesels, while providing monster torque and great fuel economy, unfortunately have high up-front cost. Not to mention, in the US and unlike Europe, the majority of our refineries are geared towards producing gasoline and not diesel. Along with the mandates for ultra-low sulfur diesel and the extra cost involved in its production, this is the reason diesel remains more or just as expensive as super-unleaded gas.

Yeah the particle emissions requirements for US passenger diesels are a major obstacle as well. I still would love something along the lines of audi's or bmw's 3.0 diesel though. Amazing engines both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UNCjeepWK2 (Post 328481)
But Ford sissified the new Explorer with the turbo-4 and I6... no more V8 offered. Credibility, shot.

When did the explorer have any credibility anyway? Even with the V8 option its always been a soccer mom mall crawler. Ford cares about selling cars not dick measuring.


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