Jeep Garage  - Jeep Forum

Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum (http://www.jeepgarage.org/forums.php)
-   Grand Cherokee - WK (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f5/)
-   -   Few Questions about my 2005 WK (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f5/few-questions-about-my-2005-wk-17069.html)

RyanHM 01-05-2011 12:08 PM

Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
Hey everyone, first time posting on here ive been a long time lurker and looking forward to getting some good advice from you guys. To start off, I have a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo with the 4.7 and 92,076 miles. I recently brought it in to the stealership for a very small leak and they said it was an unattatched leaking front axle vent tube, so they repaired and reconnected it.

Anyways, they also stated that a front crank seal and thermostat housing are leaking. I asked how bad it was leaking and the service advisor told me not too bad, there was just some condensation noticed, and it would be $460.00 to repair both the crank seal and thermostat leak. I told him I want to wait on it and I would be in touch with him. Besides being able to do my own oil change I am not very mechanically inclined at all. Which is why Im wondering if you guys can tell me if this sounds legit, and if it is common for the crank seal and thermostat housing to leak, and if the price sounds ok. I havent heard of these items leaking on many WK's, which is why i wanted to do a little research before spendng the $460.00. Also, in reference to these leaks, besides the axle vent leak that was fixed there are no other fluids or anything else dripping from the vehicle, which is why i am wondering if these supposed leaks are a necessity right now. Any advice is very much appreciated, thank you!!! -Ryan

ohioscott 01-05-2011 02:34 PM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
I am a new member here also and I do most of my own work on cars. I am learning my way around out 06 WK as well so I can't be of much assistance directly with your concerns. I will say with over 20 years experience working on my own cars I don't consider a leak a leak until there is something on the ground and I can show a measured fluid loss in the system. I have made an exception to that in the case of head gaskets in the past where I could see the trace of problem right in front of my face.

As for the thermostat housing ?? I would assume there would be a puddle if it were a problem. It should not be too hard to remove and replace yourself. I have not done it so I can not say for sure but I have ordered a Haynes repair manual (due in about a week) and these usually do a real good job at getting you right on track for a repair.
http://www.haynes.com/products/productID/577 Chiltons is another good source too.

Maybe someone will chime in here with direct knowledge to help you out. Try a search of the site for Thermostat or Crank housing maybe someone has posted a to do tip??

Good luck.

OH by the way $460 sounds expensive for a couple seals to me especially when they get dealer cost of parts and have big buildings with tools, shop equipment and car lifts.... I don't know how involved the Crank Seal is but I would order the Thermostat parts needed and the repair manual and change that myself sure enough

I usually think the dealership is too expensive unless I can't do the work myself planned over a weekend. If I can justify my time to do it and I have time to do it or it can wait a short time for me to make time to do it. Also there is a special tool $$ in there to consider as well. I can mount and balance tires but I am not going to buy a tire machine and balance machine to do it.

sorry ramble
Scott

ohioscott 01-05-2011 02:44 PM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
http://www.jeepgarage.org/f187/how-to-install-180-tstat-for-4-7l-9569.html

just saw this I don't see pictures but the write up is nice

4.whoa 01-05-2011 06:29 PM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
I agree, do the t-stat housing yourself. I don't know about the 4.7 but I've heard the hemi needs a special tool to pull the crank damper.

2005JGC 01-06-2011 02:56 AM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ohioscott (Post 328826)
... to me especially when they get dealer cost of parts and have big buildings with tools, shop equipment and car lifts....

And those tens of thousands of dollars worth of special tools let alone the hundreds of thousands of dollars in tools between the techs, the tens of thousands of dollars to pay for those lifts, and the tens of thousands of dollars PER MONTH to keep the lights on in the shop, and electricity to make the lifts function on... I was once told the overhead at my dealer, I dont remember the number but it was something like 150k+ dollars PER MONTH just to cover the building costs, utilities, employee salaries, etc....

Its not like the "buildings" magically fill themselves up with tools, the dealer pays for ALL of them (special tools) and the techs pay out of pocket for of their own tools to work on your vehicle.

I say this to point out the fact that, just because the dealer "has" the stuff doesnt mean that its just handed to them for your benifit and to shaft you... they pay up the ass for it every month, and somehow people think that they should lower their prices because they have it?

As for the concerns, you could take care of them, get a thermostat and thermostat housing (probably just the thermostat seal leaking), be careful with the bolts holding it on, they are like 8mm head bolts but very small, Ive seen them break before. You will also need coolant 1 gallon should do.

the crank seal, you need a puller for the dampener, I would just have the dealer do this, its REALLY easy to damage the new seal during installation which means nothing but all the time you spent fighting it was in vain as its going to continue leaking... realistically if its just seeping I would not worry about.

RyanHM 01-06-2011 11:35 AM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
Thanks for the advice guys! I think I will try to do the T-stat housing myself, and get a second opinion or wait on the crank seal. Since there is no visible fluid dripping from the vehicle at all and I dont smell or see any coolant leaking, I think these problems might be not a priority for right now. I will be careful to keep an eye on it and continue to monitor it.

And I have looked into getting the Haynes repair manual and I think im going to get it. Ive heard very good things about it and it might be a good way to ease into doing my own repair work on my Jeep. Ill keep you guys updated if anything is resolved from this problem, but I think Im going to not worry about it for a while as it seems like it isnt too big of a deal yet. Thanks again for the excellent advice!

ohioscott 01-06-2011 12:16 PM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2005JGC (Post 329276)
.....
Its not like the "buildings" magically fill themselves up with tools, the dealer pays for ALL of them (special tools) and the techs pay out of pocket for of their own tools to work on your vehicle.

I say this to point out the fact that, just because the dealer "has" the stuff doesnt mean that its just handed to them for your benifit and to shaft you... they pay up the ass for it every month, and somehow people think that they should lower their prices because they have it?.

2005JGC

I have been a working mechanic for 20 years (although not in the auto industry) I too provide my own tools to work and rely on the company for large specialized tools. My point was to convey that even though one might be able to do their own work it is not always desired, practical, or advised. Ryan made the short comment in the original post about doing an oil change. I just wanted to point out that maybe the Thermostat with a reference manual may not be a much larger step toward doing that work himself if desired, and that the other may not be desired or practical. It also may save $$ and increase his comfort level in working on and understanding his car.

I hire work out that I can not do or that I don't want to do. I make my money because people hire people like me to do work they can not do or don't want to do. It is my opinion that if you don't want to do it yourself you should pay a fair price for it. I do, and like Ryan I do some research to be sure I am not paying too much or being advised by someone who will guide me to a repair/service I did not need.

I worked (in the past) for an auto service center that offered "FREE" alignment checks but it was policy to recommend an alignment because if your car was of the age/condition that you questioned your alignment you would agree to an adjustment and the precision of the instruments were so close tolerance that 99% of the cars on the rack would provide a measurement that was not 100% true alignment therefore the company could recommend an alignment to correct the problem. Since the car was already on the rack and hooked up to the equipment at that point all that was required at that point was adjustment of some hardware to correct it and most of the work was already done. The cost in time and labor was not increased much by fixing the misalignment but the billing of the alignment job paid for that service and 10 other free alignment checks labor and time. It was in the interest of the service manager to sell the alignment no matter how small the correction would have been.

I suspect this was true for the no visible leak in the thread. Sure there is a damp area and that is not ideal. There is a loss and a failure in the system but it is probably to the degree that it needs a major costly repair.

The dealership should get a fair price for services they provide. We are paying them to inform us of the correct safe operating condition of our vehicle. We are also paying them to do the work. In my field many times there are independent consultants and/or state or local officials that review the equipment and make recommendations to the customer as to what should be repaired/upgraded and if our standards of service are up to industry standards. We as automotive consumers don't really have that (This is where Forums like this are great in my opinion). The garage service manager is making a recommendation based on their company policy and (hopefully) the mechanic that reviewed your car. Your service on your car pays for the wages of the person making the recommendation and the person doing the service as well as a portion of all the overhead in the garage.

There are service managers and or mechanics that present repair/service items to customers like the evening news talks about the new children's cereal that makes them obese. Without mentioning or informing them that in order for your child to actually become obese from the cereal you have to eat 2 times the serving every day with whole milk and a glass of warm butter for 2 years without getting any exercise. Sometime it is a pressure sale or fear based sale.

OK, Rambling again and on a soap box at the same time :o

2005JGC 01-06-2011 04:54 PM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
I fully respect that...

At the same time there are customers that want to know EVERYTHING. As a tech its my job to look the car over. If the rest of the car is super clean and something is starting to seep, ill make a note of it. You of all people should know that the tech cannot win, either you didnt note enough of you noted too much from the customers perspective.

Lastly I think too much of the blame is being put on the dealership that told him that it wasnt leaking bad. They told him straightforward that its not leaking bad, from there its on the customer. If the customer cannot say no then its the customers fault not the dealers. Also as you must know there is a CYA involved by the dealer, We dont have a magic ball to tell us when it will get bad enough to repair, and if a month goes by, and by this time all the coolant has drained out and the engine overheated, now you have the customer raising hell that he was misinformed and told he would be just fine. Some people want to know unrealistic information then make uneducated decisions that magically end up blaming the dealer when the S hits the fan.

Shortly after I got the job at my dealer another tech "left the petcok open" on a radiator, some how it wasnt leaking for the hour he had it running following the repair. The customer drove it with the coolant light on chiming at him and the temperature gauge pegged until he fried his motor. That tech got to put a used motor in it free to the customer. I would like to see a small independent shop do that. You would get lauged out of the building coming in demanding a motor.

robpp 01-06-2011 05:36 PM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 2005JGC (Post 329594)
Shortly after I got the job at my dealer another tech "left the petcok open" on a radiator, some how it wasnt leaking for the hour he had it running following the repair. The customer drove it with the coolant light on chiming at him and the temperature gauge pegged until he fried his motor. That tech got to put a used motor in it free to the customer. I would like to see a small independent shop do that. You would get lauged out of the building coming in demanding a motor.



they have insurance just like your big old STEALERSHIP.

and some of them have tools and equipment too :rolleyes:

2005JGC 01-07-2011 05:04 AM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
I apologize for comming across arrogant and/or stupid. I am not trying to, I am simply trying to point out that a dealer has their place. I fully respect people not taking there vehicle to the dealer, they are expensive, there is a reason I am in the buisness... and every day I thank my lucky stars I do what I do. I can hardly afford life now let alone paying for that headgasket when it blows, or that failed WIN module that is preventing my job transportation from starting.

Being a stealer employee, I know its not the end all, I know EVERYONE has bills no matter how big or small. I see the downsides, but I also see the upsides. The provocation for my comments thus far was nothing more than me misinterpreting a statement from someone else that to me I took as dealerships have it so good and easy but they charge more than everyone else.

Furthermore, I agree parts markup is disgusting, nuff said.

There is something to be said for factory trained techs, that have worked on the same vehicles for years. Also, taking your vehicle to a place with access to a wealth of chrysler information, with factory scantools, special tools and factory parts. Im not by ANY means saying its the only way, but it is a good way.

ohioscott 01-07-2011 09:44 AM

Re: Few Questions about my 2005 WK
 
1st off RyanHM - I am sorry it seems that your thread has been hijacked, Please post another reply if one of us can be of anymore assistance. We will try to stay on point:o



Quote:

Originally Posted by 2005JGC (Post 329860)
--

(1) I am simply trying to point out that a dealer has their place. I fully respect people not taking there vehicle to the dealer, they are expensive, there is a reason I am in the buisness... and every day I thank my lucky stars I do what I do.

(2) Being a stealer employee,

(3) Furthermore, I agree parts markup is disgusting, nuff said.

(4) There is something to be said for factory trained techs, that have worked on the same vehicles for years. Also, taking your vehicle to a place with access to a wealth of chrysler information, with factory scantools, special tools and factory parts. Im not by ANY means saying its the only way, but it is a good way.

#1 Agreed
#2 I do not care for that term and it is used a lot on Forums I have noticed
Dealerships have a predjuice like Lawyers and the IRS now.
A few bad ones have shot the industry in the foot - as well as escalating profit driven prices
#3 Agreed - in my business or corporate parts division marks up the price 200-300 percent to the
branch offices and then the branch office marks it up to the customer. Then the customer looks
at the mechanic and :( you feel like a front line thief for the company
#4 This is the only thing I am happy to pay for. This is what I don't have and what I am really
there to buy. If it goes to the dealer I want a trained professional with tools, equipment, and
reference material to get the problem solved.

#4a When it takes a lot longer then projected or I get the car back with the same problem is when I turn into a real JERK because not only did I pay for the service but I made arrangement to bring the car in and wait there or leave it and come back and pick it up later. All of this is a serious strain on my life. It is also involves someone else when I make arrangements to be picked up and dropped off. I also know not everything gets fixed the 1st time but it still gets under my skin. I go to the customer to repair, they don't have to come to me but still there is down time for them if it is not fixed right the 1st time.

I know very well that the customer blames the mechanic more than is deserved. I also know that service managers hear way more negative grumpy customers than happy ones day in and day out. I know full well what it feels like for a customer to unload all their frustration on the mechanic for the company's pricing and policy.

The heavy handed tactics of some dealerships makes me wary of all I (or may family) use until you develop a comfort level with them over time. The computer controlled systems of todays automobile sometimes mask and compensated for the true fault of the problem causing a multi step repair sometimes that is out of the hands of the mechanic (although the factory engineers should get this out faster- todays technology is perfect for this) but my business has these problems too.

I agree that the customer has to be an informed consumer to a point. I also feel that we pay mechanics and service managers to provide us as detailed and accurate info as possible to make our decisions. The recent trend of lawsuit happy disgruntled customer and exploitive media reporting coupled with recent generations lack of personal responsibility really muddy's the waters and works against this system.

I just want to live life without the CYA principal as a constant part of it.

Again rambling on my soap box again:o
I will stop now.:D

RyanHM - again I appoligize for the thread jack:o
2005JGC - No ill feelings intended I have enjoyed the discourse thru the thread:)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:00 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community