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-   -   2012 North American Diesel? (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f157/2012-north-american-diesel-18508.html)

Sparro 02-06-2011 08:51 PM

2012 North American Diesel?
 
Anybody know if the new Diesel will make a North American debut in 2012?

Scottina06 02-07-2011 02:07 AM

Re: 2012 NA Diesel?
 
no...diesels are too expensive and hard to pass emissions in the US. The engineers talked about it in our Feb. chat

OneCent 02-07-2011 06:18 AM

Re: 2012 North American Diesel?
 
Never say never ;-). The new VM-Engine can use different diesel quality, maybe it will hit the US Market in the future, maybe not as Jeep but as Alfa Romeo ;-)

Sparro 02-07-2011 09:20 AM

Re: 2012 NA Diesel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottina06 (Post 349730)
no...diesels are too expensive and hard to pass emissions in the US. The engineers talked about it in our Feb. chat

I don't understand? Chrysler, GM and Ford already have diesels in their pickup trucks. If they were too expensive and hard to pass emissions why do they exist in their pickup trucks?

Technosavant 02-07-2011 10:53 AM

Re: 2012 NA Diesel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparro (Post 349831)
I don't understand? Chrysler, GM and Ford already have diesels in their pickup trucks. If they were too expensive and hard to pass emissions why do they exist in their pickup trucks?

Because in pickup trucks they give something you can't really get with gasoline- stump pulling amounts of sheer torque. Emissions rules for large pickup trucks are also different from passenger cars and SUVs too.

As ultra low sulfur diesel becomes more predominant in the US, we may see more diesels, but the fuel itself is more expensive (to say nothing of purchase and maintenance costs on a diesel), so there just isn't the same market.

I don't deny that the low end torque of a diesel would be nice, I just don't think the payoff would be worth it over the Hemi- you'd be taking a much more expensive engine that costs a lot more to feed (sure, it will go longer on a tank, but if you get 30% better mileage and the fuel is 30% more expensive, you never make back that difference). If you need the power for towing or other heavy work, that's one thing. But for a vehicle like the WK2, there's just not much point to it.

mjw930 02-07-2011 11:52 AM

Re: 2012 NA Diesel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Technosavant (Post 349906)
If you need the power for towing or other heavy work, that's one thing. But for a vehicle like the WK2, there's just not much point to it.

I don't know if that's entirely true. Take a look at the Touareg's since '09. They have basically switched over from the V8 to a V6 TDI for people needing the extra grunt for towing and somehow they manage to get much better fuel economy and don't jack the price up beyond what the old V8 up charge was.

Then again, VW has been the pioneer of car diesel long before most in the US knew that diesel was anything more than truck fuel and a novelty on some Mercedes.

Honestly, I think it's just a matter of time before there's a modern diesel option in the WK2. Probably waiting on the 8 speed ZF box since one thing the diesel needs in a car/SUV application is more gears to counteract the narrow RPM band.

Repo503 02-07-2011 12:13 PM

Re: 2012 NA Diesel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparro (Post 349831)
I don't understand? Chrysler, GM and Ford already have diesels in their pickup trucks. If they were too expensive and hard to pass emissions why do they exist in their pickup trucks?


They also charge about an 8k premium to get the oil burner and associated transmission.

I've said it many times before here, that a small, 6 cylinder turbo diesel would be the ideal powerplant for this car. better range, more low end torque, and a turbo to make it better at elevation.

Aside from it being expensive to certify a diesel for all 50 states and the related urea injection systems to clean the exhaust I think the biggest obstacle to diesel adoption in the US lies with the consumer. Jeep offered a diesel before (albeit not a very good one) and the take rate was abysmal. Most people in the US still have the smoking Benz or 80s GM diesel stuck in their head. Until that changes dramatically we will be stuck with petrol only choices. Shame really.

Technosavant 02-07-2011 12:27 PM

Re: 2012 NA Diesel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Repo503 (Post 349995)
Jeep offered a diesel before (albeit not a very good one) and the take rate was abysmal.

IIRC, the CRD was a very expensive engine and was only offered as an option on the higher trim levels. There weren't many Overland WKs sold to begin with, and when you already are getting the Hemi, the CRD doesn't really seem to lend much in return for the few thousand bucks it cost.

I don't deny a nice 6 cyl turbodiesel would work well, but I'm just not sure it can be done at an economical enough price. As much as I'd have like the extra torque without taking the mileage hit, diesels are another bag entirely when it comes to maintaining them, and that's a bit intimidating if you've never owned one before.

OneCent 02-07-2011 12:55 PM

Re: 2012 NA Diesel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Technosavant (Post 350018)
As much as I'd have like the extra torque without taking the mileage hit, diesels are another bag entirely when it comes to maintaining them, and that's a bit intimidating if you've never owned one before.

My Mercedes Diesel (2.2l Turbo Diesel with 150PS, 330NM) has service intervals (incl. Oil change) around every 18'000 miles or every two years. If i'm compare that to a HEMI or the 3.6l, i dont think the cost for maintaining the Diesel are higher, at least not here in Switzerland ;-).

In the last 10-15 Years, the Diesel engine made a big step forward.

Sparro 02-07-2011 01:12 PM

Re: 2012 North American Diesel?
 
I for one would love to see one. The diesel in my brothers 2010 X5 is powerful, quiet, torquie, and fuel efficient.
It was priced in the middle, more expensive than the 6, but cheaper than the 8.

Scottina06 02-07-2011 01:16 PM

Re: 2012 NA Diesel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Repo503 (Post 349995)
They also charge about an 8k premium to get the oil burner and associated transmission.

I've said it many times before here, that a small, 6 cylinder turbo diesel would be the ideal powerplant for this car. better range, more low end torque, and a turbo to make it better at elevation.

Aside from it being expensive to certify a diesel for all 50 states and the related urea injection systems to clean the exhaust I think the biggest obstacle to diesel adoption in the US lies with the consumer. Jeep offered a diesel before (albeit not a very good one) and the take rate was abysmal. Most people in the US still have the smoking Benz or 80s GM diesel stuck in their head. Until that changes dramatically we will be stuck with petrol only choices. Shame really.


:thumbsup:

Repo503 02-07-2011 01:50 PM

Re: 2012 NA Diesel?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Technosavant (Post 350018)
IIRC, the CRD was a very expensive engine and was only offered as an option on the higher trim levels. There weren't many Overland WKs sold to begin with, and when you already are getting the Hemi, the CRD doesn't really seem to lend much in return for the few thousand bucks it cost.

I don't deny a nice 6 cyl turbodiesel would work well, but I'm just not sure it can be done at an economical enough price. As much as I'd have like the extra torque without taking the mileage hit, diesels are another bag entirely when it comes to maintaining them, and that's a bit intimidating if you've never owned one before.

There was really no logical reason to take the CRD...its real world mileage wasn't much better than the Hemis and it was a bit of a dog. But times have changed and the diesels that VW and BMW are putting out currently are incredible.

I still don't think we will get one, at least not anytime soon, mostly because I think it will be very difficult for chrysler beancounters to come up with a buisiness case for one, especially when the car is already selling well. Maybe if gas prices spike significantly, or a key competitor offers a diesel that sells well.


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