Jeep Garage  - Jeep Forum

Jeep Garage - Jeep Forum (http://www.jeepgarage.org/forums.php)
-   Grand Cherokee SRT - WK2 (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f97/)
-   -   More on weight.....and options.... (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f97/more-on-weight-and-options-23557.html)

P-Dawger 05-23-2011 03:24 PM

More on weight.....and options....
 
Ok so has anyone (Jeep engineers included) given any thought to different performance options regarding weight?

Options add weight. Were the current curb weight specs with a fully optioned vehicle?

Here are some things that could be heavy (read heavy enough to effect performance)

Panoramic Dual Pane sunroof (Glass is very heavy, motors to run the sun shade)

Rear DVD (probably minimal, but lbs add up)

Luxury Group II (motor for power liftgate, blind spot monitoring, again all adds up

SRT High performance audio (speakers (19) are really heavy, amps, subs)

Tow Group (Class IV hitch (damn heavy) wiring etc)

So what do you think all the above adds up to...couple hundred lbs?

All of this may seem trivial but when folks start modding with intakes, exhaust, etc - folks are looking for 1/10's of secs to increase track times.

All of the stuff above adds up - and a couple hundred lbs of extra stuff - does hurt performance.

Would be interesting to see 0-60 and 1/4 times for a stripper 2011 SRT8 Jeep and a fully optioned one (even add in the engine block heater)...

I think there would be a noteable difference (again when folks start mods they are looking for gains...so everything adds up.

I guess we can see when the mags start testing - how these things are optioned (usually mags get the fully loaded vehicles)

Just a thought

soontobesrt 05-24-2011 10:57 AM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by P-Dawger (Post 419378)
Ok so has anyone (Jeep engineers included) given any thought to different performance options regarding weight?

Options add weight. Were the current curb weight specs with a fully optioned vehicle?

Here are some things that could be heavy (read heavy enough to effect performance)

Panoramic Dual Pane sunroof (Glass is very heavy, motors to run the sun shade)

Rear DVD (probably minimal, but lbs add up)

Luxury Group II (motor for power liftgate, blind spot monitoring, again all adds up

SRT High performance audio (speakers (19) are really heavy, amps, subs)

Tow Group (Class IV hitch (damn heavy) wiring etc)

So what do you think all the above adds up to...couple hundred lbs?

All of this may seem trivial but when folks start modding with intakes, exhaust, etc - folks are looking for 1/10's of secs to increase track times.

All of the stuff above adds up - and a couple hundred lbs of extra stuff - does hurt performance.

Would be interesting to see 0-60 and 1/4 times for a stripper 2011 SRT8 Jeep and a fully optioned one (even add in the engine block heater)...

I think there would be a noteable difference (again when folks start mods they are looking for gains...so everything adds up.

I guess we can see when the mags start testing - how these things are optioned (usually mags get the fully loaded vehicles)

Just a thought

Well first things first, Id say all options you mentioned may at most add up to 100lbs +/- 10lbs, over other poossible options being as sunroof is standard and the truck has to have speakers so 100lbs is very fair imo, nothing more. And as we all know, 100lbs = 1/10 second in the quarter.

So Id have to say all those extra feature imo are worth a 1/10th at most unless there is a situation in which your life or a large cash some or something of extreme value comes into play and you would lose by a tenth or so. Otherwise, the luxuries are completely worth the added weight unless those things are not important to you. For extreme racers who compete at the track a lot, then maybe a base model is better sure, I agree with you there. BUT most owners will not race seriously enough to where the small gain in weight wouldn't be worth the gain in goodies :)

Plus it would be very easy to gain it back in some simple mods. Plus you have to factor in small production variations in that not all engines and trucks are created equal and when talking about tenths, some cars come off the factory floor a few tenths quicker for no apparent reason! (dont get the sunday truck lol)

I could see a fully loaded SRT8 beating a base package one just as many times as it gets beaten just due to sheer luck of the draw, were talking about pennies here in a million dollar cash game! Just mo

Scottina06 05-24-2011 11:06 AM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
the more luxury items....the more weight

Jeff_Jeske 05-24-2011 12:50 PM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
In a way I wish SRT was more like my EVO which has an aluminum roof with no glass and lack of any kind of cruise control. Rather than loaded performance I want basic performance.

soontobesrt 05-24-2011 01:28 PM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
This thing wasn't designed to be a complete race SUV guys lol, what good would that be??? They would sell maybe like 50% of what they are going to sell simply because of the lack of amenities, thats why they are there, thats what people buy, simple.

NOW that said, I see this huge calling for a FASTER more PERFORMANCE oriented Jeep so maybe the SRT team and engineers at Jeep can TAKE NOTE and have a limited run of a Jeep SRT8 with a "Race Package" Call it the SRT8-R!!!


Chassis: It would be based off the same rigid chassis

Body: Would have CF/Aluminum body panels where applicable (tons of weight savings)

Interior/Accessories: It would have absolutely NONE of the fancy electronic cruise/adaptive stuff or the sunroof options or manual stuff, anything that adds weight with motors/accessories would be ripped out. Also could come with no rear seats (maybe optional) Lose the nav, lose all the heated this and ventilated that, all you need are those race seats, you all important gauges and some basic controls for the lights/wipers etc and maybe a clock lol!

Engine: Would use the 392 Hemi that exists and go with a more aggressive cam, better flowing heads with a lighter and stronger valvetrain and possibly a tuned intake/exhaust system for some added punch. I think with those changes alone we could be looking at a solid 50-100hp pending on tuning and how extreme they would be willing to go.

Suspension: The brakes/suspension are almost sufficient for racing as far as Im concerned BUT options could include upgraded sways/links and maybe a "R" package mode so the adaptive shock system can go one mode stiffer for extreme track racing? Also this model maybe could be dropped 1"-2" all around while increasing the spring rate so shed handle even better.

Brakes: Also could have stainless lines for the "R" package and some drilled/slotted rotors to help as well as a color choice package for the calipers :)

Wheels/Tires: Id lose those ugly wheels and move to an even lighter forged wheel with a smaller radius, maybe 19" front and 20" rear staggered with some Nitto NT-05's or other comparable track tire! Pilot-Sports!?

Cosmetics: Would need to be aerodynamically more efficient and also have some distinct looks to stand out from the rest so Id say go with a lower front/rear bumpers with rear diffusers. The front should have an aggressive splitter for higher speed tracks. Also a nice rear spoiler would be in the works one that was functional and looks good kinda like the standard one but more aggressive!


NOW, if they made that, ID BUY IT FOR SURE! Although you're probably looking at like $80-$90k+ sticker for just that stuff, maybe more?!

P-Dawger 05-24-2011 02:01 PM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by soontobesrt (Post 419915)
This thing wasn't designed to be a complete race SUV guys lol, what good would that be??? They would sell maybe like 50% of what they are going to sell simply because of the lack of amenities, thats why they are there, thats what people buy, simple.

NOW that said, I see this huge calling for a FASTER more PERFORMANCE oriented Jeep so maybe the SRT team and engineers at Jeep can TAKE NOTE and have a limited run of a Jeep SRT8 with a "Race Package" Call it the SRT8-R!!!


Chassis: It would be based off the same rigid chassis

Body: Would have CF/Aluminum body panels where applicable (tons of weight savings)

Interior/Accessories: It would have absolutely NONE of the fancy electronic cruise/adaptive stuff or the sunroof options or manual stuff, anything that adds weight with motors/accessories would be ripped out. Also could come with no rear seats (maybe optional) Lose the nav, lose all the heated this and ventilated that, all you need are those race seats, you all important gauges and some basic controls for the lights/wipers etc and maybe a clock lol!

Engine: Would use the 392 Hemi that exists and go with a more aggressive cam, better flowing heads with a lighter and stronger valvetrain and possibly a tuned intake/exhaust system for some added punch. I think with those changes alone we could be looking at a solid 50-100hp pending on tuning and how extreme they would be willing to go.

Suspension: The brakes/suspension are almost sufficient for racing as far as Im concerned BUT options could include upgraded sways/links and maybe a "R" package mode so the adaptive shock system can go one mode stiffer for extreme track racing? Also this model maybe could be dropped 1"-2" all around while increasing the spring rate so shed handle even better.

Brakes: Also could have stainless lines for the "R" package and some drilled/slotted rotors to help as well as a color choice package for the calipers :)

Wheels/Tires: Id lose those ugly wheels and move to an even lighter forged wheel with a smaller radius, maybe 19" front and 20" rear staggered with some Nitto NT-05's or other comparable track tire! Pilot-Sports!?

Cosmetics: Would need to be aerodynamically more efficient and also have some distinct looks to stand out from the rest so Id say go with a lower front/rear bumpers with rear diffusers. The front should have an aggressive splitter for higher speed tracks. Also a nice rear spoiler would be in the works one that was functional and looks good kinda like the standard one but more aggressive!


NOW, if they made that, ID BUY IT FOR SURE! Although you're probably looking at like $80-$90k+ sticker for just that stuff, maybe more?!

I like it...would be a good idea. I always thought that they should get into some type of racing series with the Jeep. I go to Daytona for the 24hrs every year and it amzaes me what is entered by manufacturers to compete.

Could a fully raced out Jeep SRT8 be competative...I'm not sure. Even if they threw the V10 in from the Viper but raced it as an SRT8 Jeep...out there with the best the world has to offer. It would be a statement.

Or even create a whole racing series....the SUV Challenge Cup...I mean isn't america like SUV central? There is a Jetta TDi Cup...so I don't think a series (just for the Jeep SRT8) or other SUV's would be out of the realm.

Porsche, BMW, Volvo, Jeep - all have high performance sport utes. All of which would translate from the track to the showroom or to the aftermarket. Is anybody paying attention out there?

But yeah, at a minimum some type of performance package (I mean after all that is what this Jeep is about) to raise the bar a bit.

nosmoke 05-24-2011 02:56 PM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
The WK2 SRT gives me the luxury of the Overland but the speed I've always wanted. 1/10, etc doesn't make a hoot of a difference to me because my kids will be quiet in the back watching the DVD.

mjw930 05-25-2011 08:39 AM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
Yep, they could do all this and MAYBE they would sell 100 of them, probably less. SUV's are NOT street race cars and Jeep is not the platform Chrysler is ever going to promote for that activity.

Porsche, BMW, etc. were mentioned as examples of performance SUV's but every one of their top end products is loaded with technology and is typically the most luxurious of the line, not stripped down models. The ONLY translation to racing is through the name, not the vehicle. Neither Porsche, BMW, Volvo or any other SUV is the basis for an on-road race car, they simply carry the same brand as their true track cars.

What Jeep SHOULD do, if they are serious about promoting a competition image, is go after the off-road racing scene like VW did with the Touareg. That's the only legitimate competition platform for an SUV.

If you want to drag or road race then nothing in the Jeep lineup is ever going to be faster than a proper car and Chrysler has that covered with the Challenger and Viper.

What you guys are talking about is grass roots grudge racing at the local drag strip and you all have to realize that a properly prepared Challenger SRT8 392 will clean your clock on every pass.

soontobesrt 05-25-2011 04:30 PM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mjw930 (Post 420285)
Yep, they could do all this and MAYBE they would sell 100 of them, probably less. SUV's are NOT street race cars and Jeep is not the platform Chrysler is ever going to promote for that activity.

Porsche, BMW, etc. were mentioned as examples of performance SUV's but every one of their top end products is loaded with technology and is typically the most luxurious of the line, not stripped down models. The ONLY translation to racing is through the name, not the vehicle. Neither Porsche, BMW, Volvo or any other SUV is the basis for an on-road race car, they simply carry the same brand as their true track cars.

What Jeep SHOULD do, if they are serious about promoting a competition image, is go after the off-road racing scene like VW did with the Touareg. That's the only legitimate competition platform for an SUV.

If you want to drag or road race then nothing in the Jeep lineup is ever going to be faster than a proper car and Chrysler has that covered with the Challenger and Viper.

What you guys are talking about is grass roots grudge racing at the local drag strip and you all have to realize that a properly prepared Challenger SRT8 392 will clean your clock on every pass.

Yeap I agree 100%, and that all comes back to aerodynamics. Why did cars shapes and sizes transform the way they did? To me it was really technological advancements which allowed for better designed chassis/bodies for racing and ultimately an SUV is one of the worst shapes/sizes for that. Generally the longer/thinner (think top fuel :) the better off.

Thats NOT to say there haven't been some big bulky and ugly cars that have ever won anything but when you are going out to RACE and WIN, you are going to most likely go with something that makes your goal EASIER to attain and an SUV due to sheer size/design just wont do that. Sure some guys are crazy and have a passion for them (i.e. Brian BJB and some other guys) and they can dump endless $ into them to get them to go as fast as you want but realistically thats just for the love/fun of being different and creative even. If Brian were to do the same thing he is now in a Challenger or Camaro or whatever else, he would certainly be trapping better times. AWD doesnt count because you can only run some much power through an AWD system until the weight gains for the equipment needed negate the use of it so again dont look at that :) When Racing: Cars>SUV/Trucks. Just my .02

GCOverland 06-16-2011 04:39 PM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by soontobesrt (Post 419915)
This thing wasn't designed to be a complete race SUV guys lol, what good would that be??? They would sell maybe like 50% of what they are going to sell simply because of the lack of amenities, thats why they are there, thats what people buy, simple.

:thumbsup:

So who's complaining first that the SRT8 is higher than a Mercedes SL?:lol:

GCOverland 06-16-2011 04:42 PM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by nosmoke (Post 419949)
The WK2 SRT gives me the luxury of the Overland but the speed I've always wanted....

Exactly! I already thought that the SRT8 wouldn't be a choice for me because it might not have:

- Distronic
- Ventilated Seats
- Tow-Package

etc.

Finally, we don't lose ANY significant features compared to the Overland.:thumbsup:

soontobesrt 06-16-2011 10:23 PM

Re: More on weight.....and options....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GCOverland (Post 432162)
:thumbsup:

So who's complaining first that the SRT8 is higher than a Mercedes SL?:lol:

SL? You must be talking about the ML right? The SL's are those tiny little cars that sit like 3" off the groud lol, otherwise the thing wouldbe on RAILS! :eek:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:52 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2012 - JeepGarage.Org
The Jeep Grand Cherokee Owners Community