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-   -   Why can't the QL be lifted? (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f109/why-cant-the-ql-be-lifted-24569.html)

ihatecats78 06-17-2011 11:57 AM

Why can't the QL be lifted?
 
I've seen a few threads where owners are stating that the QL system on the Overland can't be lifted. Is there a reason for this?

Before purchasing a GC, I was a member of several forums for research / owner satisfaction purposes. Occasionally I still check out the Land Rover forums and today I saw this one:

http://forums.landroverworld.org/sho...t=21429&page=2

Essentially the owner of this rig has lifted his LR4. It also has a raising and lowering air suspension, and after the lift all of the settings are 1.5" higher. I know our systems are somewhat different, but if they can do it, why can't we?

Nouveau Redneck 06-17-2011 12:38 PM

Re: Why can't the QL be lifted?
 
It can probably be done, but no one has made a kit for it yet. You would lose the correct aerodynamic ride height for highway speeds and be less stable and more prone to rollover when on road, but it almost definitely can be done.

ihatecats78 06-18-2011 10:58 AM

Re: Why can't the QL be lifted?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouveau Redneck (Post 432657)
It can probably be done, but no one has made a kit for it yet. You would lose the correct aerodynamic ride height for highway speeds and be less stable and more prone to rollover when on road, but it almost definitely can be done.

Stability and aerodynamics would be affected whether the lift was with QL or steel springs right? I don't think I'd need much. Maybe a 1.5 or 2" lift. With QL a 2" lift would equate to 11.5" of ground clearance in OR1 and something like 13" in OR2. I believe the main benefit would be aesthetic.

77rednecktruck 06-18-2011 03:00 PM

Re: Why can't the QL be lifted?
 
Just get smaller tires and rims so it looks like it is lifted up. :)

The air bags have to mount onto something, just put a 2" spacer where they mount, should be simple. Of course, I have never looked at the QL suspension so this could be totally inaccurate. ;)

mhassler 06-18-2011 04:42 PM

Re: Why can't the QL be lifted?
 
This LR4 owner is running Sasquatch adjustable lift rods: http://lucky8llc.com/Products.aspx?ProductID=2206.

I believe, this means he is no longer utilizing the air suspension - if it even had the air suspension to begin with. I am still a member on that forum so I asked him a few questions, when he gets back to me I will share.

I remember looking into these when I had my RR, they were being developed. Took a few years.

I don't think anything like this would work for Jeeps airbag suspension. Not to mention, if it worked in conjunction with the QL the resultant Jeep height would be unsafe with the stock components. The way the suspension is designed if one were to go any higher than 2.5", whether permanent spacer lift or QL,. would require new coils, struts, shocks, sway bar links and the other suspension components.

Looks like one or the other... for now. The best the QL owners can hope for is a way to trick the system to stay at ORII height permanently.

mhassler 06-19-2011 03:07 PM

Re: Why can't the QL be lifted?
 
^I need to correct myself and my assumptions on the Sasquatch rods the LR4 owner used lift his LR4 and its applicability to the Jeep QL...

First of all, the LR4 in the above thread indeed has the air suspension. LRs air suspension has access-mode (-2"), normal (0") & Off-Road (+2.2"). The systems cross-linked air suspension is a bit more sophisticated in they way is treats the IFS. It has the ability to act as a live axle, no ground out, when in Off-Road Mode.

What is the lift for the LR3/LR4?
The 2.5" Johnson Rods replace the factory height sensor rods thereby increasing all of your height settings, even access mode (-2"). So with the numbers shown above a LR3/LR4 owner will have a "new normal" of 2.5" which allows for the larger tires. At the same time their new access-mode height setting will be 0.5" instead of -2". Owners must keep this in mind if they install larger tires.

The rods via Sasquatch are adjustable themselves. So an owner could add the amount of lift, up to 2.5" that they want. Again, this particular owner selected 1.5". They are the same in principle as Johnson Rods.

Even with the addition of these rods an owner will have to watch their tire selection for when they are driving and enter aero-mode the suspension will drop from normal height by 0.8". And in access-mode will go lower. And, the speed-limit restrictions still apply with these rods, i.e., when in Off-Road and you surpass 25-mph the setting drops back to normal. Not sure what the speed is for Jeep's QL system but I know it drops back.

Apparently these rods are easy to swap in and out. Many LR owners drop then in simply for weekend outings.

Applicability to Jeeps QL:
I can't give a factually based, scientific answer here as I am not intimately familiar with the QL setup (never looked at a QLs suspension setup - just read the sales brochure) so I would be unsure how this will translate. But I do not believe that Jeeps current suspension setup would be as accommodating to such a simple and effective modification. Hopefully, for all of you QL owners out their I am wrong.

If I had a QL Jeep I would contact Johnson Rods and Sasquatch to see if they would be interested in working on a lift for QL equipped Jeeps; if it is even possible. If it is possible to develop a small lift which tricks the QL system and yield a total increase of nearly 5" (2.6" QL + ~2" "sensor tricker" lift) it would probably be very unsafe with the stock components so that would present additional costs.

Personally, I would have my reservations on using the stock suspension components (coils, shocks, sway bar links, etc.) and going any higher than 2.5" given what I have seen from installing the 2.5" spacer lift from RRO.

I still think the best, and safest option, that QL owners can hope for is a way to disable the QL from dropping out of OR2 and back to normal, park and/or aero-mode heights. This would give the same result as the RRO lift and allow owners to more-permanently retain the extra clearance they already have and run slightly larger tires.

IMO, any amount of lift over 2.5" would be unsafe until new suspension components are developed and available; regardless of how that lift is achieved.

Hope this helps...

vikingdave 06-20-2011 10:53 AM

Re: Why can't the QL be lifted?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mhassler (Post 433802)
^I need to correct myself and my assumptions on the Sasquatch rods the LR4 owner used lift his LR4 and its applicability to the Jeep QL...

First of all, the LR4 in the above thread indeed has the air suspension. LRs air suspension has access-mode (-2"), normal (0") & Off-Road (+2.2"). The systems cross-linked air suspension is a bit more sophisticated in they way is treats the IFS. It has the ability to act as a live axle, no ground out, when in Off-Road Mode.

What is the lift for the LR3/LR4?
The 2.5" Johnson Rods replace the factory height sensor rods thereby increasing all of your height settings, even access mode (-2"). So with the numbers shown above a LR3/LR4 owner will have a "new normal" of 2.5" which allows for the larger tires. At the same time their new access-mode height setting will be 0.5" instead of -2". Owners must keep this in mind if they install larger tires.

The rods via Sasquatch are adjustable themselves. So an owner could add the amount of lift, up to 2.5" that they want. Again, this particular owner selected 1.5". They are the same in principle as Johnson Rods.

Even with the addition of these rods an owner will have to watch their tire selection for when they are driving and enter aero-mode the suspension will drop from normal height by 0.8". And in access-mode will go lower. And, the speed-limit restrictions still apply with these rods, i.e., when in Off-Road and you surpass 25-mph the setting drops back to normal. Not sure what the speed is for Jeep's QL system but I know it drops back.

Apparently these rods are easy to swap in and out. Many LR owners drop then in simply for weekend outings.

Applicability to Jeeps QL:
I can't give a factually based, scientific answer here as I am not intimately familiar with the QL setup (never looked at a QLs suspension setup - just read the sales brochure) so I would be unsure how this will translate. But I do not believe that Jeeps current suspension setup would be as accommodating to such a simple and effective modification. Hopefully, for all of you QL owners out their I am wrong.

If I had a QL Jeep I would contact Johnson Rods and Sasquatch to see if they would be interested in working on a lift for QL equipped Jeeps; if it is even possible. If it is possible to develop a small lift which tricks the QL system and yield a total increase of nearly 5" (2.6" QL + ~2" "sensor tricker" lift) it would probably be very unsafe with the stock components so that would present additional costs.

Personally, I would have my reservations on using the stock suspension components (coils, shocks, sway bar links, etc.) and going any higher than 2.5" given what I have seen from installing the 2.5" spacer lift from RRO.

I still think the best, and safest option, that QL owners can hope for is a way to disable the QL from dropping out of OR2 and back to normal, park and/or aero-mode heights. This would give the same result as the RRO lift and allow owners to more-permanently retain the extra clearance they already have and run slightly larger tires.

IMO, any amount of lift over 2.5" would be unsafe until new suspension components are developed and available; regardless of how that lift is achieved.

Hope this helps...

I think the main problem with fixing QL to be permanently lifted is that the airbags become hard as a rock at that setting, and you would have a very rigid ride all the time. It's fine for the occasional off-road trip but far to harsh for most people day to day. The 2.5" lift kit on a standard non-QL GC would ride much better.

mhassler 06-20-2011 12:20 PM

Re: Why can't the QL be lifted?
 
^good point, didn't realize how harsh the ride was in OR2 as I've never been in a QL equipped Jeep.


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