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-   -   How to bring up TSBs at the dealer (http://www.jeepgarage.org/f107/how-to-bring-up-tsbs-at-the-dealer-25675.html)

hammer1234 07-14-2011 09:01 AM

How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
I've had a number of issues that I've noticed with our Jeep that may be addressed in TSBs:
  • Front end squeak and rattle, may be TSB 02-005-10 or maybe even TSB 21-001-11 (Jeep has early build date)
  • iPod Touch connectivity problem, think TSB 08-036-11 applies
  • ESC update from TSB 18-001-11 (one done to address issue that CR found on test drive?)
  • Dead spots in throttle response, think TSB 18-012-11 applies
How does everyone usually address the TSBs with the dealer? Do you describe the problem and then ask if the TSB applies? What if you think a TSB applies but there is no symptom?

mhassler 07-14-2011 09:16 AM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
I always bring, and leave a printout of the problems I am having checked out (i.e. problems identified by TSBs) and then ask them to look for TSBs that may cover them. Naturally, i've done my homework and know there is a TSB to address the issue. If they call and say there is no problem or other I will read them the TSB number.

Even when not working with TSBs I always bring a typed service visit list. I include my name, mileage what is wrong, how I noticed, how long its been that way, etc.

I do this for two reasons, 1) incase my service advisor is out or left early the day they are working on my vehicle and 2) I have a detailed, full-disclosure record. My father had a problem with Ford in the 90s and I learned from his efforts to do this upfront.

The shame of it is that we as consumers have to even play these games. It be nice to be notified of fixes to potential issues. Thank g-d for this forum and wk2jeeps.com

JoeSchmoe007 07-14-2011 09:28 AM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
Also it seems that computer systems at the dealerships do not reflect new TSBs immediately after Milous lets us know about about them. Looks like these changes take some time to propagate. If not urgent - I would suggest waiting for a couple weeks at least before going to the dealer.

hammer1234 07-14-2011 09:38 AM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
Any harm if the problem's been around for a while? None of these issues are keeping me from driving the vehicle and since it's a daily driver I need to plan my service visits...

RageOfFury 07-14-2011 10:05 AM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
What I do is print out the TSB. I hi-lite the symptoms that I am having and the note(s) that state this applies to my Jeep. I bring the printed out TSB to the dealer. I show them the TSB stating that I have experiencing these symptoms and that this TSB will correct those symptoms.

The dealer I've gone to has been superb with regards to TSBs. They don't question me or try to deceive me. They just go ahead and perform the TSB as asked.

vikingdave 07-14-2011 10:09 AM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
I print out the TSBs, but I don't walk in and just ask them to do the TSBs. I say something along the lines of "My transmission has always shifted roughly, and made clunk sounds. I just noticed that they came out with a TSB to resolve that issue, here it is ...". Just make sure you describe the symptoms as described in the TSB.

Basically, you have to let them know that your Jeep has symptoms that you are not happy with, and that Jeep has published a resolution for the issue. Once you do that, it's all but impossible for them not to cooperate with you.

robpp 07-14-2011 10:17 AM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vikingdave (Post 447363)
I print out the TSBs, but I don't walk in and just ask them to do the TSBs. I say something along the lines of "My transmission has always shifted roughly, and made clunk sounds. I just noticed that they came out with a TSB to resolve that issue, here it is ...". Just make sure you describe the symptoms as described in the TSB.

Basically, you have to let them know that your Jeep has symptoms that you are not happy with, and that Jeep has published a resolution for the issue. Once you do that, it's all but impossible for them not to cooperate with you.


^^^^^^^^^I handle it the same way. You need to describe the symptoms that happen to be exactly the same as the TSBs. then the same....i was looking around and found this TSB......

CIEGOS 07-14-2011 10:30 AM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vikingdave (Post 447363)
I print out the TSBs, but I don't walk in and just ask them to do the TSBs. I say something along the lines of "My transmission has always shifted roughly, and made clunk sounds. I just noticed that they came out with a TSB to resolve that issue, here it is ...". Just make sure you describe the symptoms as described in the TSB.

Basically, you have to let them know that your Jeep has symptoms that you are not happy with, and that Jeep has published a resolution for the issue. Once you do that, it's all but impossible for them not to cooperate with you.

I did the exact same thing thinking I wasn't experiencing those issues. After the updated I can say those issues were present I just didn't know any different. So i wasn't lying to the dealer :). I understand why some people don't want their vehicle updated because if it isn't broken why fix it, but the update is noticeable and if Chrysler is using this PCM on all the GC w/Hemis built after April I figure its something I want on my vehicle.

Timgco 07-14-2011 11:17 AM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mhassler (Post 447341)
I always bring, and leave a printout of the problems I am having checked out (i.e. problems identified by TSBs) and then ask them to look for TSBs that may cover them. Naturally, i've done my homework and know there is a TSB to address the issue. If they call and say there is no problem or other I will read them the TSB number.

Even when not working with TSBs I always bring a typed service visit list. I include my name, mileage what is wrong, how I noticed, how long its been that way, etc.

I do this for two reasons, 1) incase my service advisor is out or left early the day they are working on my vehicle and 2) I have a detailed, full-disclosure record. My father had a problem with Ford in the 90s and I learned from his efforts to do this upfront.

The shame of it is that we as consumers have to even play these games. It be nice to be notified of fixes to potential issues. Thank g-d for this forum and wk2jeeps.com


Exactly what you said. I make 2 copies of the issues/ TSB's. Give one to the service writer and keep one on me. This way when he/ she calls and they say we could NOT duplicate or find a TSB, I make them pick up the sheet I dropped off.

It is a real pita to tell these people how to do their jobs. I do wonder about others that have no clue about their trucks/ cars that are having issues. Do ya think they just get screwed over, multiple times to teh dealer, get rid of their vehicles due to issues?

All I have to say, is it's a good thing these forums exist!

Jeremy1983 07-14-2011 11:30 AM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
My question is why the hesitation with the service departments? It seems that if there is a TSB that improves a known issue that you are experiencing, and you want it performed on your vehicle, what's the issue? Isn't this what TSB's are designed for? I mean, it's not exactly exhaustive work for them.

Andrew Klossner 07-14-2011 12:10 PM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
Yesterday I found a wrong way to do this. I called ahead of time to make an appointment for the first oil change and described the three problems I have, giving the TSB number for each one. This all went onto the record with no concerns expressed. Yesterday morning when I dropped off the car, the service writer told me that he couldn't perform a TSB unless he could verify the problem. Two of them are intermittent problems and the third is the 430N radio upgrade -- "did you leave the iPod in the car?" I left thinking I would have to spend a lot of time escalating the issues.

They called me a few hours later, said they had checked my VIN number against the TSBs and applied all of them.

My mistake was not pointing out that each of these TSBs was simply a flash upgrade. I suspect the service writer was thinking about old-school TSBs that involve mechanical work.

mjw930 07-14-2011 02:10 PM

Re: How to bring up TSBs at the dealer
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy1983 (Post 447416)
My question is why the hesitation with the service departments? It seems that if there is a TSB that improves a known issue that you are experiencing, and you want it performed on your vehicle, what's the issue? Isn't this what TSB's are designed for? I mean, it's not exactly exhaustive work for them.

It stems from the belief that people are fabricating problems to match the TSB symptoms.

TSB's fall into multiple categories and a number of them involve a lot of labor and replacement of parts. These are indeed TSB's that should only be applied if the vehicle exhibits the symptoms. The other class of TSB's that seem to have been lumped into the mix are the software updates. These do not require any significant labor (0.5hrs at most) and cost Chrysler nothing to apply. In the past, with other manufacturers, software updates are treated much the same way as your computer handles it via Windows or Apple update, if it's available it gets downloaded. I recall that my Ford, VW, Porsche and Volvo all got software pushes whenever they were attached to the dealer's computer for routine service. If there was an update it was pushed and installed, no question and no symptoms required.

In the old days, before everyone had web access and all the manufacturers dirty laundry was aired in public, TSB's were something filed in the service department that mechanics used to see if there were fixes for customer complaints or things they discovered. What happens is we are stuck between both worlds with the average service manager being a computer neophyte and only knowing how to work in the old style mode.

I'm hoping the service manager at my dealer understands the differences and my expectation that I always have the latest software installed regardless whether I have noticed a problem or not.

For example, TSB 08-024-11, Intermittent No Start Or Intermittent RKE Function. It's bad business to wait until a customer is stranded on the side of the road to apply this patch. EVERY WK2 that comes through a service department should get this patch. The customer should NEVER have to ask for patches like this.

BTW, I did have this happen within 12 hours of ownership! The WK2 was completely dead sitting my my drive and it was barely cold from the drive home from the dealership. It took a "reboot" by disconnecting the battery to get it to come back to life. Not the best way to start a relationship with a brand since I have never owned a Chrysler product before.


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